R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?

Schwendo wrote:

Cold....you are a "Crazy" after my own heart. I agree 1000% with your posts.

I still say, once BW clarifiies their server situation, we can better figure out how the RiG gamers will roll servers. I already know that it will be a sad state of "EU versus US" servers....To be 100% Honest....I would play on any time-zone server to keep these RiG players together. I cannot vouch for the rest of the Crazies on this, but, I feel its the "right thing" to post.

In closing, I'd rather the people in RiG go into the same server....regardless of playstyle...Details do not exist on servers....lets keep an open mind til then....

Agree Schwendo, do think RIG and most of us no matter what should pick one server and go. May I suggest a vote maybe, seems that would be fair. Now everyone is free to do whatever they want, no matter what its a game and I understand. But, for a stable Community that all of us here want, we need to stick together. This is just my opinion, and Gnome thanks for post bro, all the topics here are great and do agree on alot of it. Whatever happens it will great, cause I have big hopes for all of us.

Yeah, I can feel that this topic is a "sore subject" already...

I've added a "list" on the SWTOR-General Discussion. Plz check it out, and pick which list you'd like to be on. (there are no "right" lists..its simply your opinion)

I think Cal' hit the nail right on the head with the "wanting to get to know the players that you are going to be playing TOR with".

Just plz remember. You can RP on any server. It just takes the RiG RP'ers to organize it. PvE will be on every server. PvP is the one that is the biggest "speedbump" to the whole "trying to get us all in one (or just 2-3) servers" ideas. Once we figure out the "playstyle" server situation, then we can work out the "Time Zone/Continent" situation in turn...

Remember gang, we're trying to do this to make ALL of our gaming experiences better...I have faith we can accomplish that...

Yes, well, this subject was bound to be an unpopular one as it tells people that things are not as they thought they are and that may disappoint them.

In the end, I have to say, maybe such wall of texts may not have been needed to just ask you all to realize there may be people who think we're going somewhere else with this. I just happen to tend to go overboard with things and sometimes I also like to stir things up.

Well, I do feel however that the message has been transmitted to an extent
Schwen's thread is a good next step in my understanding.

Much appreciated, Grome.

It was getting too serious so far out from launch...hehe. I'm all about having fun, and pushing that to an extreme level! Lets get back to the "Yay, TOR's coming out soon!!" banter, hehe.



< "A game...this is.....fun it should be......crackrocks....BAD for Whitney Houston....they are..."

< "HDUB, have you seen my body??...I had it here before Mace Sch'Windu lopped me off??"

(off topic): <--Why does the "Chewy" smilie look like a "brown ghost" from Pac-Man?? *eats power pellet*

Dresgar wrote:

To be honest Open World PvP is my favorite type of PvP, (allow me to clarify, Open World PvP for me does not mean ganking, but actually defending the low level players from the abusive high level players, raid a city, that kind of stuff) so if at all possible I would love to see RiG on that kind of server.

Well I know we don't know server rulesets yet, but if they do set it up like WoW, on a PvE server you'll still be able to raid cities cuz it flags you when you enter the opposite faction city. You'll be able to defend low levels if the higher levels come and gank the low level town NPC's (They'll be flagged in doing this = have fun at the slaughter). The only thing that would be different is the constant looking over your shoulder unless you remained flagged constantly.

But as I said the rulesets have yet to be announced and until then we can speculate all we want but it doesn't help lol

I apologize before hand if some people feel that I'm "dumbing down" the situation. But it seemed to be a simple trade off of either splitting the community up into like-minded playing styles or keeping the community together in a single place at the expense of different playing styles.

For instance the end goal of RiG would be one of the following:

1. One dedicated server full of all RiG members of all sorts playing together in a mixed pot of players....

or

2. Having one RiG server PER server type so that RiG members can segregate themselves into their own playstyles (PvP, RP, PvE etc) while still retaining the cohesion of the community the best we could.

These are two extremes. And while it's possible that there may be some sort of medium ground, from where I stand we'll have to take a route that follows one of these two paths eventually. In theory I'd prefer if we were all on one server. But the more I think that the more I realize how frustrated I would be to know that the entire community would be all on one PvP server when I dislike PvP server rulesets. Likewise I could see the angst of all the PvP players knowing they'll have to forfeit their favorite thing about MMORPG rulesets in order to play with the RiG members if we were all rolling on a PvE server.

In the end, I feel that as great as it would be to have everyone on a single server, the likeliness of players giving up their playstyles or even the sacrifice that a large portion of players would have to make in order to make it possible might be what could cause the single server plan to fail. It boils down to how "game breaking" the compromise will be. For many PvP players not being able to attack the opposing faction is "game breaking" and therefore they would never bother even playing TOR (much less making further sacrifices) to spend time with the RiG community. Likewise PvE players would likely never play TOR if they were forced to be farmed for 3 hours by PvP players of the opposite faction if they didn't like PvP.

So are RIG members willing to make that sacrifice and play on a server with rulesets that are "game breaking" for them? I think that question is easier answered by some than others.

I agree. I've thought long about what everyone's posted here and I've thought about my feelings on the matter.

People are only capable of changing to a degree...it's just human nature. When people try to change someone, sooner or later that person will revert back to who they originally were, maybe with some slight changes. And noone wants to try to force anyone into doing something they don't want. Meaning that even if anyone gets infuenced to join a server that they really didn't want to, sooner or later that person will get tired of playing on that server. This is why I believe it's important to find out how each member feels.

Schwen has already started a new thread that consists of a list for everyone to voice their opinions and state where they will end up playing, server wise. I think honestly the first step we need to take before we can move further in any direction is find out where everyone will be going. I understand that for some it may take until more server info is released.

List for server type you will join

There are a lot who just want to go where ever the main community goes and there are some who want specific servers only. Please post your replies and Schwen will add your choice to the list. This may also help those who are undecided to figure out where they will go by seeing the replies and names on the lists.

Maybe I have missed something with all this, so I will ask it openly

How does a server type stop you from doing anything?

I have mentioned open world PVP, this is only one server which is different, there is no actual difference to any other, and as far as I am aware, there has been no confirmed open world PVP servers as yet?

I do appreciate this is something we need to all work out, but honestly I have never felt being on any type of server has ever improved one type of play style over any other, or stopped me doing anything else?

I would ask you all to consider this.

If the people you will play this game with PVE, PVP or RP, if you have a number of other RiG guilds who also take part in your preferred play style as well, and with those possibly making up a large part of you're gaming community, and will likely be the people and guilds you will fight with and against, how does playing on a server with specific target audiences which potentially could fragment and split up the people on here help?

How does simply having a load of random strangers who are also playing the same style as you, but likely not with you help?

Perhaps this is just a personal thing? But I would actually think it would be better to have a group of people who take part in everything to some degree or other, who you can play this playstyle or other with, than just one play style? It's more options? We can all get frustrated with one type or other after a while, need a break from it? And having others who do different things could simply help you do the other aspects easier and offer more options?

This is the thing for me, servers have never pigeon holed my play style I guess, but then I take part in everything lol, so maybe it just does impact me so much, or I just don't see the benefit of one server type over another?

Awesomeness abounds on these posts...

Jedin:

You are 100% correct. It comes down to simply..

1.) I am playing SWTOR because I want a strong community first and foremost. Thats whats important to me.

2.) I am playing SWTOR because I value playstyle (PvE, PvP, RP) as paramount to my gaming experience....

Thus, the list I have posted.

Don't get me wrong, there will be members that are a little of both, also...

Cold:

We are both on the exact sheet-o'-music...we should Da'Star't a guild or something .

Ty:

You put it the most simply. We can track the "Trends" of server preferences on the list I posted/am upkeeping. I think we may all be surprised by the outcome...and pleasantly at that...


I really appreciate all the opinions on this, and the 15 other threads dedicated to the "server issue", hehe. It shows that there's alot of passion behind it.

Lastly, your opinion is just that, yours. There's no "right" or "wrong" answer here...

I'll crawl out of my holiday hole and comment here:

I think the major point of contention, and where you'll see the most people digging their heels in is the PvP aspect. Many people would simply prefer PvP on their own terms, even in a community of respectful gamers. In all honesty, I think it will be inevitable that the RiG community is going to want to play in their own idiom as far as gameplay - people just gravitate to their comfort zone.

So, I think the way you survive a community split across multiple servers is you facilitate it. Sanction one server for each server type and incorporate forums for each here on the site. You can incorporate cross server RiG events to promote community interaction and possibly get folks to try out a game aspect they normally shy away from. For example, Guild X on the RiG PvP server promotes a Lrn2PVP night where they hold a PVP workshop to teach PVP tactics. We're a long way away from release, and with our community growing daily, I think the idea of being able to have a large enough community to warrant multiple servers won't seem so farfetched next spring.

I honestly think that if you pigeonhole the RiG community in one gameplay type, you'll lose guilds to the server type their members are looking to play on. I'm starting to sound like a broken record here with the guilds thing, but I'll say it again. The guilds are where the rubber meets the road for RiG, and you'll have all flavors of guilds and many shades of gray across the spectrum. It just makes sense to me that if you want to include as many as you can, then you will want to have a presence on the server type they're interested in.

The major difference of opinion is PvE v PvP.


Jedin,
I agree with what you say. When it comes to looking at the extreme of having a presence on each server-type, I think you don't necessarily have to look that far. It all depends on where the community splits most, which is the PvE/PvP matter. No need to expand further than that because as far as I can tell, practically everyone could make their peace with at least one of the two.


Ty,
In the end it will depend on the server rulesets, so we can only assume in what way a server will affect the way the game is played (if any). Sometimes servers are indeed just "labeled" to announce its target audience without changing anything else in the way it plays. That would be the best and would in my opinion remove the question about which server to play on, as it really doesn't change that much.

Chances are however that between PvE and PvP there is an actual change of how PvP works. A flagging mechanism is likely. So, yes, the only factor is open-world PvP in the end. The point is, for many this is a very important matter and some are not ready to sacrifice the constant open-world PvP to play with specific people.


Schwen,
If you have to put people in two categories I believe your points can be misleading. If anything I would distinguish people by whether they are ready to give up their preferred server-type choice to play with the people or they put their server-type choice before the people.


Vari,
I agree that on the long run it seems more plausible to go for the split between PvP and PvE. Then again, you might add to this sentence the "IF the community seems to split that much at that point." We will have a better idea once that list Schwen started grows.
The bottom line is that we are acting on assumptions regarding server rulesets, but it is good to discuss this a bit.

How about if we keep Schwen's list for a base to start from and add each individual's server preference after the name?

Calvillanous wrote:

How about if we keep Schwen's list for a base to start from and add each individual's server preference after the name?

Isn't that about what we're doing now?

Well Grome that seems to be it split wise?

Open world PVP or not?

I don't see too much need or concern otherwise?

If there are open world PVP servers I will have a char on one, but my main, and my main game time would ideally not be.

Open world PVP can be amazing fun, but they can also be one of the worst communities to be a part of from a respectful gameplay point of view, its a tough one, but getting too in depth with this, or breaking us up already into different directions could possibly be very counter productive at this point?

If people already start to split and get convinced on wanting to be on a specific server type now, it may make it difficult for people to back track later on? And given the fact we don't even know if there will even be open world PVP servers yet? This whole thing could be perhaps causing friction and separation completely unnecessarily?

I guess for me I would have preferred to have had this conversation once we knew what the options where first, so we could make a more educated and informed decision, right now we are just discussing the what if's and we don't even know what they are yet?

No harm in discussing it now I know that but when people mention server sets, are we really just looking at open world PVP here? Splitting EU/US etc as well?

If we are going that way over building just one or two communities and dividing up into further groups it may mean us all perhaps re-evaluating what it is we are trying to do, and what these boards and so on are about?

Would we use these boards as a generic server by server info messaging boards at launch? Do we create separate boards for each server and so on?

Perhaps even, would a more authodox fan site work better than an actual forum?

What ever it is, I think it has far reaching changes potentially if we go one way over another, and could either be an amazing thing which puts us and our ideals out to more players on more servers, or there is also that very real possibility this could dilute our impact so much as to put this whole idea to the sword?

Only in numbers do we have the ability to create the change we are all hoping for, and fingers crossed we will keep growing as we have done since we started and maybe this alone will mean us splitting will not matter anyways? but it is food for thought about just what we do if we do end up splitting up maybe?

Well, they already stated that there will be PvE and PvP servers. So there are going to be open world PvP servers.

The list Schwen is upkeeping IS to find out which players are putting the RIG community first or play style first in their commitment to a server type.

I personaly agree with you guys on the fact that we can make our gaming experience what we want if we're all together and have a great community. The only downfall I see is, like we have said, the open PvP that would not be on a PvE server. Yes people could just stay flagged for PvP all the time to help compensate (if the game allows) but this is not quite the same as an open PvP environment I know. I have seen this tho. I know of guilds in WoW who would stay flagged all the time. They had some members who did not want to play on a PvP server so they compromised and the ones who wanted the open PvP just merely stay flagged. You still get the feeling of caution and looking over your shoulder all the time but if others aren't flagged you can't just chase them down and attack.

Anyhow, I do feel this list of Schwen's will at least let us see where people want to go. After that we can arrange the site however we need and carry on as needed to maintane the community we have no matter who will be in the main RIG group or not. As stated previously, people can and will make alts with everyone else, we all know this. But after seeing how many will not play on a perticular server, I can see that we may not all be together on one server.

Running this community in many ways is like running a guild. You can't please all the people all the time. So the only real thing you can do is try to please the group as a whole and that would be going with the majority vote on whatever matter we may be discussing. i.e. choosing a server for the main RIG community to start on. And this isn't the RIG community alienating people. It's us as a whole doing the best we can to keep everyone together. Saying we're leaving others out who choose not to come is a mute point when all we can do is run with what most of the people want.

I've made no secret about my personal preference (If it were entirely up to me? PVE Server!) ... But I will roll on the main RIG server no matter the type. I like the concept too much to ignore it!

I agree with you Ty, better not split already... That’s where Schwen’s list comes in handy - it will give us an idea on how much that split is truly needed to begin with.

That re-evaluating what the community is trying to do is what I wanted to get at with this thread in the first place. The idea has a wide range and can go anywhere we would want it to. But it’s true some choices are not appropriate and we want the best for us all.

I really want to keep the community tight, especially now. Don’t split it, but start sniffing what might be a splitting matter and why.


Like Cold says it, the list is doing this sniffing job to an extent and we can then see where we all are at. Adjustments can be made then if felt needed... But the focus should, as far as I am concerned, be to keep us all as close as possible, if possible.

Thank you once again RiGgers for making me re-evaluate my understanding of things. I have been traveling and only just gotten back on a computer (albeit briefly). Hence I am only reading this for the first time.

>rant on<
I'll make one note that may have escaped people's attention about the whole PvE vs. PvP thing. If I do not wish to PvP, but am forced to be flagged, then I am forced to play in the style of whoever comes along whether they are RiGgers or not. I guarantee you they will not show me any respect. Hence I (personally and with respect to the fact that other's have valid but differing points of view) do not feel that there is respect on PvP servers, or that it is likely possible to have significant respect develop on PvP servers. Let me emphasize that this is my personal feeling on the matter, and not a perfectly logical argument. What does PvE lose from being on a PvP server? I've listened to the epic battles for access to PvE encounters because a large PvP guild decided to camp the entrance. At a more personally level I enjoy looking for encounters designed for 3-5 players and trying to beat them by myself. Give that kind of edge to the opposite faction and it is unlikely that I will be allowed to complete my attempt. Further, it is well known that there are griefers who like to prevent people from leveling.
>rant off<

I have to run to a family activity at the moment, but I'll post a bit of the direction I'm thinking of for a solution when I have a moment.

Yeah there's no reason to talk about splitting atm. Lets just watch the list and see what everyone wants, then we can make a call on what exactly to do and how to go about it. It'll take awhile for everyone to post anyway.

I would like to see us bumping the list post tho if needed so it doesn't get burried.

Ald,
You have very good points there. This just makes me think even more that if one server had to be chosen, PvE would be the way to go.
That "epic PvP battle in front of a PvE instance entrance" is then one of the things that would not be possible however. Some people thrive for that kind of thing, but in my opinion, while some thrilling experiences can only happen on a pure PvP server, I still think what we're looking to achieve clearly favors a PvE ruleset. Just my opinion though.


Looking forward to your next post on the matter.

I am with Ald pretty much 100%.

Thats not to say I would not roll on a PVP server, far from it, but there is one other option, which is one I would likely follow anyways.

Roll on one main server, ideally PVE, this is the RiG home server if you will? But then all of us who enjoy a spot of PVP as well, then pick a 2nd server a pure open world PVP server in which we roll a char for just that sort of thing? We power level one another, watch each others back, and PVP en mass as a RiG group?

We all PVP the right way, have a laugh doing it, but equally when it gets too much, you always have your home and your mains on a different server the home one?

I have done this before and had a right laugh doing it. We hit PVP big time when it suited, but could also chill out and have a laugh when the grief got too much

It kept both fresh, and kept the PVP fun and enjoyable as well just a thought

Coldhart wrote:

...Example: I always play on a PvE server and I do not RP. I'll be willing to join a PvP server if that is where the main group wants to go. However, I do not wish to join an RP server. See I didn't just give in to any server but rather I compromised and will switch to a PvP server for the greater good. (Actually they said there will be PvP and PvE servers. They haven't said anything about RP servers yet that I know of)...

I would like to hear more of your opinion on why NOT an RP server? I seem to understand that you think you have to RP on an RP server, but I know from experience that that will likely not be true. Please enlighten me.

Aldemarran wrote:

Coldhart wrote:

...Example: I always play on a PvE server and I do not RP. I'll be willing to join a PvP server if that is where the main group wants to go. However, I do not wish to join an RP server. See I didn't just give in to any server but rather I compromised and will switch to a PvP server for the greater good. (Actually they said there will be PvP and PvE servers. They haven't said anything about RP servers yet that I know of)...

I would like to hear more of your opinion on why NOT an RP server? I seem to understand that you think you have to RP on an RP server, but I know from experience that that will likely not be true. Please enlighten me.

I can't speak for Cold, But I have never done any of the RP stuff, so? Natuaraly I fear the unknown. Cold may share my other concern ... If on a RP ... We thought that RP'n would be required.

Typically RP servers have more stringent naming conventions, but that's as far as it effects non-RPers. You don't have to RP to be on an RP server, and honestly that would be an impossible ruleset to enforce.

What The Handsome Devil wrote.

My experience from an WoW RP server: you don't have to role play if you don't want to. In fact, many people don't role play all the time and quite a few of them of them don't role play at all. The only thing one must follow are the RP rules: no out-of-character talk in /say or /yell and no immersion-breaking names for characters and guilds (like LebronJames or Ipwnyounub). Out-of-character talk is allowed in guild, party, raid and private chat without restriction, and accepted in all public channels like General or Trade.

On The Sha'tar, many people don't role play at all, but vast majority stick to the RP rules. Even pure raiding or PvP guilds honor them, and majority of their members never role play.

Non-role players usually roll on an RP server because the community tends more mature, laid-back and tolerant. Unfortunately, RP servers don't get world's first raid kills, and massive open world PvP action can be a rare commodity.