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Coldhart

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PostSubject: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 4:48 am

Ok...Here it goes. This is probably one of the most heated topics in MMO's


Are you the type who buys in-game money? We know it's against the rules. Does it stop people? lol yeah right.

Personally, I say whatever floats your boat. Can it make the econemy bad? Yep. Is that going to stop people from buying it? Nope.

Ya know...maybe we don't want to respond to this. What if someone from Lucas Arts or Bioware see it. Well, they can't punish us for buying for other games.
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Coldhart

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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 4:51 am

I feel like when I was a kid and whispering secrets back and forth about girls with friends at school Razz

Cold in a whispered voice "Hey Schwen. What did she say? Does she like me?"

Schwen replies quietly, "She said yes but you're a bad boy and she can't be seen with bad boys."
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Grome
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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 5:07 am

Hehe :>

Never bought and I don't think I ever will. Things can always change of course but I don't think I'm the kinda guy. It would probably just feel like someone else's money I'm spending.

Don't respect it too much either but I guess it doesn't mean much. Some people have more time on their hands, others have the money instead.

I am interested in how well it will unfold in TOR.

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Kai-Sun
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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 5:12 am

I've never had an interest in buying gold, and even had to report a friend who was doing it.

It never ends well, it mostly comes from hacked accounts. Everyone I know has been hacked at least once.

I've dodge the bullet, but I don't want to invite that kinda hassle on myself.
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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 5:14 am

Kai-Sun wrote:
Everyone I know has been hacked at least once.
I haven't :3

There you go, you can take back your statement now.

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Kai-Sun
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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 5:18 am

Well, technically I 'know' myself so I should have taken it back in my original post, following your logic Razz

It's just an emphasis on how common it's becoming, and it's really something I'd like to see how Bioware is going to handle it.

Imo ship authenticator type stuff on launch.
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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 5:26 am

Kai-Sun wrote:
Imo ship authenticator type stuff on launch.
I think they have lots of things to play with to prevent it (more). This being a good example.

Another is how maybe companions will already limit the effectiveness of bots and the likes.

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Coldhart

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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 5:41 am

Nice responses so far. Se some might think I'm stiring the pot, but I just like to see different opinons on stuff. TBH I have bought gold in the past a couple times. But I can honestly say I wont in TOR. I want to experience everything first hand. Plus I have a lot of strong feelings for TOR (mostly based off the feelings I got from SWG back in the day) and I don't want to see our econemy ruined if there even could be gold sellers.
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Baelyrn

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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 9:54 am

I wouldn't be against someone buying gold, if it weren't for the fact that you will be supporting an adding more gold selling spam to the game. Supporting people who hack accounts and use exploits in the game.

If people wouldn't buy gold there would be a lot less hacked accounts, I think that's enough of a reason to be against it.
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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 10:00 am

The ability to buy gold also brings allong the bots and those lovely whispers every 5 minutes.
I really dislike all of the above...play the game as it is intended to be played.
If something takes long to achieve...it takes long to achieve thus making the feeling of achievement bigger.
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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 10:03 am

Never bought, doubt I ever will. Main reason that I want to play as intended, I feel everything my character gets should be earned by the character.

I seriously distrust all the 3rd party sites. Count on being hacked if you even visit them. Or at least don't count on getting what you pay for (or count on getting what you pay for, depending on how you look at it).

If people really want to buy they'll find the sites, they don't need the in game adds for that. In fact, these adds are what make sure I'll never buy any. Seriously, as long as the spamming keeps going on I'll leave the game 10 times for good before even thinking about buying.

If only people who buy and whine about the spamming (I expect most buyers whine about it) understood that they were supporting the spammers, maybe they'd think a few more times before buying. ...dumbasses.
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Stryklone

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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 10:58 am

When DMing Dungeons & Dragons I never offered a Potion of Dragon Killing for $5. Not even when the dragon had them in the middle of a fire-breathing strafing run. Oh, how cruel.

Never paid real money for Monopoly money. Never paid a line judge to respot the tennis ball. Never paid a ref to forget that penalty. Never paid to resurrect a chess queen. Never took a taxi to bypass half the marathon.

I'm not in favor of elitism rolling over fairness.

These were said it in the other thread before this got started:

There is a different company name on the credit card billing. Somehow that makes gold and item selling perfectly fine now.
When game world benefit comes from out of the game world, there is no game.

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azarhal

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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 1:16 pm

I never bought gold and I have no interest into doing it. I play games to play games...I don't care the time it take to get somewhere as long as I'm having fun. If I have no fun, I stop playing.

I also think that Gold buyers are inviting farmers, hackers and sellers to do what they do. If BioWare insued it's own "gold seller" system, I wouldn't have problem with people using it, but right now the system work on exploitation idiots (you are paying somebody real money for 0s and 1s...that have virtual value).


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Grome
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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 1:48 pm

azarhal wrote:
I never bought gold and I have no interest into doing it. I play games to play games...I don't care the time it take to get somewhere as long as I'm having fun. If I have no fun, I stop playing.

I also think that Gold buyers are inviting farmers, hackers and sellers to do what they do. If BioWare insued it's own "gold seller" system, I wouldn't have problem with people using it, but right now the system work on exploitation idiots (you are paying somebody real money for 0s and 1s...that have virtual value).

Then again, it might be of notice that virtual value easily equals real value. Of value is something we, well, value. Be it material or not.

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Ty-Odi
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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 3:03 pm

I can say hand on heart, I have never bought anything in a game for real money, not even MT's.

I just do not agree with it. I am quite strongly apposed to it in fact, as numerous threads and posts on the main boards will testify too hehe.

I have never seen the point, earning something in a game is far more rewarding then simply buying it. Credit farmers ruin games, and economies.

The stupid thing is, people don't realise that by buying thse credits, they are in fact just hurting themselves not just others.

If you have 1 million credits in game, it is only worth 1 million credits, so long as 1 million credits has some worth. If you buy 10 mil off a credit farmer, instantly your 10 million is worth less than it would be otherwise, and the more you do it, the more this becomes worth less and less, meaning the next time you go and buy them, you need to buy more and more, and spend more and more. Economies in games spiral out of all control, and before you know it, you can in fact no longer make enough credits yourself, and you become reliant on these farmers.

Those of us who are too wise or too stubborn depending on your view to buy them, then get utterly priced out for things, and it ruins the entire game. People leave games because of this, new players cannot even begin to get a foot hold in these games so leave after their free trial, game populations plummit.

So buying items or credits for real cash?

Hell no. And if you do it, you honestly need to give this some real thought before you ruin this game as well.

Don't mean to come across as overly harsh on this, but this is one thing I honestly depise in games. It really does get my back up, lol. Smile

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Kai-Sun
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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 3:09 pm

I will say straight out, if I find you buying credits or accounts or such from ebay and the like, it's an auto boot from my guild.
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Stryklone

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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 3:13 pm

Kai-Sun wrote:
I will say straight out, if I find you buying credits or accounts or such from ebay and the like, it's an auto boot from my guild.

But what about from EA/BioWare?
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Ty-Odi
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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 3:14 pm

Stryklone wrote:
Kai-Sun wrote:
I will say straight out, if I find you buying credits or accounts or such from ebay and the like, it's an auto boot from my guild.

But what about from EA/BioWare?

Personally I would say same problem, different source......

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Kai-Sun
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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 3:29 pm

Stryklone wrote:
Kai-Sun wrote:
I will say straight out, if I find you buying credits or accounts or such from ebay and the like, it's an auto boot from my guild.

But what about from EA/BioWare?


I'm also certain they won't allow this.

It'd be the dumbest thing I can think of a developer doing. And I still do not support it.
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Godric_Barbarosa

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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 4:11 pm

I've never done it and I never will. In fact, I'm strongly opposed to it for many reasons

1. I'm paying to play the game, buying gold seems to me to be skipping content. Why would I pay to play a game and then pay more to skip playing the game (this applies even more to paying to power level)

2. It's unfair to poorer players and all those unwilling to pay.

3. It destroys in-game economy.

4. I don't like all the tells and spamming gold sellers in-game- destroys immersion.

5. It's illegal- I generally don't have a lawful alignment but this is a law I agree with.

6. I am afraid for security reasons to even visit gold buying sites. Hacked accounts, spyware,ect. and it would probably mean I get even more spam in-game and out.

7. I'm a cheap a** sob, I don't even do micro-transactions.

I would leave any guild that didn't toss a gold buyer. It is illegal and against my sense of fair play.
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Grome
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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 4:11 pm

Ty-Odi wrote:
I can say hand on heart, I have never bought anything in a game for real money, not even MT's.

I just do not agree with it. I am quite strongly apposed to it in fact, as numerous threads and posts on the main boards will testify too hehe.

I have never seen the point, earning something in a game is far more rewarding then simply buying it. Credit farmers ruin games, and economies.

The stupid thing is, people don't realise that by buying thse credits, they are in fact just hurting themselves not just others.

If you have 1 million credits in game, it is only worth 1 million credits, so long as 1 million credits has some worth. If you buy 10 mil off a credit farmer, instantly your 10 million is worth less than it would be otherwise, and the more you do it, the more this becomes worth less and less, meaning the next time you go and buy them, you need to buy more and more, and spend more and more. Economies in games spiral out of all control, and before you know it, you can in fact no longer make enough credits yourself, and you become reliant on these farmers.

I think if someone is buying ingame credits he is probably not gonna mind if his 10m credits can buy him only 8m worth of stuff, as it is still an improvement of his personal situation. And that is exactly the problem with it. Most people who do it don't see the consequences to the game economy you point out here very well. (Hadn't thought that far myself but then again I never had to because I never considered buying anything ingame either, I just turned a blind eye to the whole process and ignored it, sort of, to be honest)

I hope BW will try to contain it as much as possible. And I still won't buy ingame money.


Edit: Godric pretty much resumed it quite well.

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Stryklone

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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 5:24 pm

Kai-Sun wrote:
Stryklone wrote:
Kai-Sun wrote:
I will say straight out, if I find you buying credits or accounts or such from ebay and the like, it's an auto boot from my guild.

But what about from EA/BioWare?


I'm also certain they won't allow this.

It'd be the dumbest thing I can think of a developer doing. And I still do not support it.

I, too, don't support it but in any form. {Edit: It seemed you supported it in your original post only if other companies sold it, not BioWare.}

I think BioWare is likely to allow something like this example, as many other developers have done:
Buy Boots of Superduper Speed for 2k credits on the AH ... or use the item store to buy the boots for $20.

Same end result. It's exactly like the player spent $20 buying 2k credits.

Now there may be an extra step in there called 'BioWare Points" bought with cash. Still the same end result.

Change the boots to a healing potion stack for $5. Still the same type of exchange, real world money used as credits in the end.

That's why my question was asked, because my impression was you see a distinction between who processed the credit card and whether the conversion to game credits came at the beginning of the transaction or the end.

I'm not trying to change your view, merely attempting to understand it.








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Ty-Odi
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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 5:34 pm

Stryklone wrote:


That's why my question was asked, because my impression was you see a distinction between who processed the credit card and whether the conversion to game credits came at the beginning of the transaction or the end.

I'm not trying to change your view, merely attempting to understand it.


Put in simple terms.

Any item in game should be earned by time in game.

Effort Vs Reward in its simplest term. Having a bigger wallet outside of game should not allow you to skip steps in it.

An MMO should be an equal platform, anyone regardless of wealth, race or creed should be able to play it and on the exact same standard. If everyone pays a subscription, a subscription should cover everything in the game. End of.

Whats the point of playing a subscription based MMO if you simply buy everything and power level through MTs? Why not just go and play a FTP game which has that model anyways?

Buying gold/credits only further impounds this problem, on top of that, it ruins the economy of games, prices out new players, in every possible way this is bad for the games and the community.

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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 5:34 pm

I'm sure any transaction they do have won't be anything but cosmetic changes, or something like a pet as seen from WoW, nothing game changing. You won't be buying items with real life money that normally take credits or time in game to farm, and have an actual use such as a potion.

You don't be buying items that will alter the gameplay of TOR, it worked in ME and other games because they aren't MMOs. It doesn't matter if they overpower a specific section of the game (Case in point, Kasumi is pretty much an I-WIN button for 90% of the game in ME2.)

Bioware would lose a great deal of respect as a company if they allowed you to purchase the equivalent of in game credits with real money.

My idea was from a third party standpoint and not from Bioware. If Bioware does it I'll still boycot it and avoid using it, and I won't foster the idea that you should spend your real money for some sort of item in game that actually has an effect on your character. Why should a company reward those that dump more cash into their game then someone who can't? Not everyone can or wants to spend that kind of money.

Being able to buy money in game, or purchase characters is wrong in my eyes, no matter who you get it from.

Ty-Odi wrote:


Buying gold/credits only further impounds this problem, on top of that, it ruins the economy of games, prices out new players, in every possible way this is bad for the games and the community.

This, it's wrong and screws up economies and is overly prohibitive to new players or people who don't have the option to even consider the idea of getting freebies.
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azarhal

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PostSubject: Re: Money...to buy or not to buy   Money...to buy or not to buy I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 5:39 pm

A cash-shop with in game items in it would destroy their Crafting system anyway...


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