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Ty-Odi
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Ty-Odi

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PostSubject: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 23, 2010 11:44 am

I mentioned something like this in someone else’s thread a few days back, but it is something that interests me, and I would like to get set up certainly nearer launch with your guys support of course Smile

The basic concept of the Senate will be that every member on her will have seat on the Senate, and each member will have a vote.

What I would like to see though is certain people who were community leaders in certain fields who we would perhaps give ‘Consul’ status. These would be the speakers so to speak, and we could even have Shadow Consul Members if need be.

An example of the way I see this as working is to have a Sith Faction representative for PVP, there will also be his counter part for the Republic. Both will outly their plans for PVP over the coming week, we of course have no real way of knowing how PVP will work fully in this game yet, but say there was a battle ongoing in some city, and some wanted to do a massive PVP event on the Wednesday some may wish for it on a Thursday, any member who turns up can then have a vote on the day, winner carries forward.

The same goes for RP events, PVE event and so on.

Mostly I would see this as chance for us all to come together say once a week in game, and just discuss our plans for the week, to let each other know what is going on, and to invite others to come and join us, as well as just being a good excuse for us all to get together and be our normal wacky selves, lol, and we could then follow up the Senate meeting with some wacky event like naked races through a hostile environment of some kind? Or some other random event each week, get our name out there in game as well as a group who just do fun community events.

Who will be the consuls, I think time will tell, I am sure that given time people will naturally begin to lead off certain aspects of the game, they always do, and I would not even discount people from outside of the R.I.G. forums being brought into this as well, though it would be nice to have them all on board of course 

This would not be a prestige thing, no ego trips please, just a case of us all getting together once a week, with a few representatives from each area of the game (And some I am sure we have not even thought of yet) who in the meeting are put forward to discuss what’s going on, and where people can find the fun on different nights and at what times etc.

Once each person has spoken, there could be a quick Q&A session, then onto the next topic.

I just think it could be a bit of fun? And a nice way for us to all get together once a week and discuss anything that’s on our mind.

For example someone may have a pressing matter that is outside of events, and it would be their chance to bring that to the attention of the group, maybe its someone who is causing problems, or someone desperately needs help with something, what ever it is, it would just be a chance for us as a group, to all try and be online at the same time, and to help us all work together that bit better?

Thoughts or suggestions?

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Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 23, 2010 5:53 pm

I think its a great idea!

Any help needed..plz let me know!

This could work for more than just broad based IG issues...

We could coordinate a ton of IG events...

*PvP (mentioned)

*PvE

*RP events

*Guild events

*Player Events

*Hanging out

*IG help

*Factional issues


And thats just for starters!

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Ty-Odi
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 23, 2010 6:01 pm

Pretty much what I had in mind Wink

Smile

I just think it would be a really cool way to do things, and to get us all together and sort out our plans for the week, or month ahead etc.

I am sure it would offer all manner of other possiblities we have not even though of as well Smile

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Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 23, 2010 7:15 pm

I hear ya Ty,

Imagine all of us knuckleheads (said with love), just brainstorming ideas...man...that could be INCREDIBLE!

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 23, 2010 7:19 pm

Sounds good. At least as long as the "everyone gets a vote" part is maintained.

And even so, the vote may be just a voice, and things not being discussed can't mean they can't happen in game on a whim either. Many good things start on a whim.
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Grome
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 23, 2010 7:25 pm

Yes, sounds like a great idea. We could make a day out of it! (not really, that's just how you say it)

Some fun sparring on the side, discussing builds... Addressing the projects and other RiG related information, suggestions, stuff like that. And of course also the important things: talking about the mistress, girth, length, technique...

You know, sorta like a picnic Very Happy (was it Cold that had a picnic related trauma? Razz)

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 23, 2010 10:22 pm

Sound good to me.

Doing it in game might be a bit more problematic, depending on the setup. It might be a good idea to have a forum topic to address the where and when too.


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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 23, 2010 10:33 pm

I demand a floppy hat, or a white powered wig, and the power to reply to everything with HARUMPH!

I'll do what I can given my schedule and demands from in guild (which probably won't be bad with what I'm trying to do.)

Could be fun! Hope we can tie this in with Paladin's idea as well
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Variable
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 23, 2010 11:19 pm

I like the general idea here, but I do have a few concerns. For one, any kind of community senate needs to accomodate the guilds within the community. A higher level of abstraction from the guilds, so to speak, or a higher level framework that the guilds will interface with. That way, you wind up with the senate enabling a melting pot of ideas across the guild spectrum of the community. The reason I think this is important is because people tend to stick to their own groups, and when you can elicit contribution from individual guilds, then you are really pulling each of these groups into the greater community.

Secondly, I think setting a hard an fast event schedule of "Once a week" will be problematic. This is especially true because if you are accomodating the guilds as I mentioned above, then you will eventually get into this situation where as a player I might have a guild meeting weekly and then a community event weekly and I eventually get to the point where my play time is scheduled before I ever really get a feel for what I'm in the mood for. We want to promote a sense of community in such a way that people want to get involved, but don't feel obligated. I think if you do make a overall community event, you limit it to once a month. I think if the Consuls are doing their jobs, the events will happen naturally.

Now, as far as how I think it should be structured, I love the idea of modularizing it by making certain Consuls in charge of organizing certain aspects of the game. PvE, PvP, RP, hell I think we can add a Fan art/fiction Consul to that as well. I haven't fully made up my mind on what I think is the best way to go about getting Consul's elected, but I do think I know how they should work. Essentially, following what I've already said, you get those Consuls to coordinate with the various guilds in the community. The PvP Consul, for example, might be the focal point for getting a laddered PvP league started in the community. The RP Consul might get with the other RP guilds to schedule a large scale battle reinactment or what have you. The main job of the Consuls in my mind's eye is to mobilize the guilds in the community to get involved.
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 12:56 am

I agree with Variable in that the basic concept is good. However there are some things that I think we need to take into consideration. So far RIG has a basic charter of principles which helps establish our core values as a community. However due to the fact that we are a grouping of both individuals and guilds, this presents a new series of possible challenges. I would suggest that, as a community, we work out together exactly how we envision this community functioning. Are we looking to organize it as a kind of governing/rule-making body or as more of an facilitating type of organization? The answer to this question will guide the rest of the organization decisions we make together. Bringing multiple, organized guilds together is like trying to organize a group of nation-states (aka the UN) who each have their own governing organizations and rules.

If we fancy creating an actual governing/rule-making organization, then we are in fact creating an internal power structure which, as most of us know, comes with its own unique set of challenges. We will have guilds of different sizes as well as unaffiliated members all vying for positions within this power structure. So that will require a great deal of time and a carefully orchestrated effort to pull off effectively.

However if we decide to organize as more of a facilitating body, then it becomes a different project entirely. Basically it all comes down to how we all envision this project working for everyone involved. My suggestion would be to try to keep it as simple as we can make it and yet still carry out our mutual objectives. Before we can build a castle, we got to pour the foundation. Smile
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Grome
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 1:13 am

I don't think we're the rule-making kind of gathering. The only rule is respect. Or our charter if you want, but those are more guidelines than rules.

A senate would have the purpose to keep everyone in touch and organize events and such. That's how I got and see it at least.

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Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 3:11 am

Yeah, Gromey...

I think what Ty is looking for, is more organizational. We would just work on getting things together, and helping those who need it. So many ideas for IG "self-made" content!

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 7:50 pm

I think we definately need a Senate to help push things along. I think what we ought to do is have the senate made up of a represenative and a Viceroy from each guild. Additionally, the participating members of this project who are without a guild shall elect their own representative and Viceroy for the Senate. For every two guilds representatives, we shall have one non-guild affiliated representative. It should be two to one on the predication that we have three ultimate avenues of representation:

Republic Guilds
Empire Guilds
Non-Guild Members.

The other option is to simply make it a two-party system, and disregard guilds altogether in the senate, and simply have 5 Republican representatives, and 5 Imperials.

The problem we want to make sure is solved is that ALL guilds get a voice in affairs, and that the non-guild members are not disincluded.

The problem is we cannot have everyone part of this senate, or simply nothing shall get done.

We ought to establish a presiding body to help make definate what we will and will not endorse.

The other idea is no NOT have a Senate, and rather have Committee's on the different aspects of the R.I.G. Community.

i.e. Committee's for:

PvP organizing Committee
Republic Guilds committee
Imperial Guilds committee
Rules Committee
etc...

There would be three people in each committee, all appointed by Ty-Odin

OR...

We could simply have instead of a committee, just have a Chairman for each of the different aspects:

PvP Chairman
etc...

These would be elected by the general population of the R.I.G. Membership. The candidates would provide a synopsis of what they would like to have implemented.

Then, each of these people collectively make up the Senate. Rather, what they do is work with the gamers and figure out what needs to be done. They then write up a proposal, and bring it before the rest of the Senate, and they all discuss and debate it, and finally a Poll is made and an official vote is taken by the Senate.

I definately think we ought to start moving towards establishing an orderly governing body so that we can provide definate resolution to all the things we want to implement, and then have everything drafted and solved for Launch, and then get to work when we are there.

Ideas?
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 7:58 pm

I support this idea, so you have my vote and all future votes accompanying this idea. Wink While I won't be running for any Consul position (I know I don't have the time to commit), I'd be happy to cast my vote and participate in community events whenever I am able to.
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 8:08 pm

Clovis wrote:
I agree with Variable in that the basic concept is good. However there are some things that I think we need to take into consideration. So far RIG has a basic charter of principles which helps establish our core values as a community. However due to the fact that we are a grouping of both individuals and guilds, this presents a new series of possible challenges. I would suggest that, as a community, we work out together exactly how we envision this community functioning. Are we looking to organize it as a kind of governing/rule-making body or as more of an facilitating type of organization? The answer to this question will guide the rest of the organization decisions we make together. Bringing multiple, organized guilds together is like trying to organize a group of nation-states (aka the UN) who each have their own governing organizations and rules.

If we fancy creating an actual governing/rule-making organization, then we are in fact creating an internal power structure which, as most of us know, comes with its own unique set of challenges. We will have guilds of different sizes as well as unaffiliated members all vying for positions within this power structure. So that will require a great deal of time and a carefully orchestrated effort to pull off effectively.

However if we decide to organize as more of a facilitating body, then it becomes a different project entirely. Basically it all comes down to how we all envision this project working for everyone involved. My suggestion would be to try to keep it as simple as we can make it and yet still carry out our mutual objectives. Before we can build a castle, we got to pour the foundation. Smile


I think we should get away from having a body that actually makes rules, but rather debates what exactly we will organize.

What this will do is be a body of people to help convey the different ideas and the different things we should do, like PvP ladders and such.
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 8:52 pm

My sense of this is that we're trying to create a wide range of possibilities for a broad audience who's only strong common denominator is Respect.

Thus I would see R.I.G. moving more in the direction of a body of "movers and shakers" who initiate things as well as provide a platform for open discussion. I would recommend against forming a list of rules as with every rule you create you are forced to exclude a portion of the population who stand against the rule.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't see the purpose of this group as largely exclusionary, but primarily as inclusionary. The objective seems to me to be to create a place where those who are willing and able to "live and let live and be nice while doing so" can gather. And in so doing hopefully escape the more asinine environments that have allowed a few to largely overrun public gaming environments.

Towards this end I would recommend a minimalist approach to rules and bureaucracy in R.I.G. Allow those herein gathered to form naturally into guilds/clans/etc that have more specific common ground, and allow them to create their own rules and organizations that best represent and support them and their interests. Above this provide a communication layer rather than another organizational layer.

Let this communication layer be used to foster constructive discussion, cooperative events, and even tools for guild searching / recruitment. Those active in the R.I.G. layer may even use their knowledge and skills to make recommendations to guilds wishing to run server-wide events. Also they could well help those looking for guilds by asking about their interests and recommending a handful of guilds that seem to support those interests.

My fear with excessive organization and rules is that you will end up creating a new form of Elitism, rather than escaping it.

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Ty-Odi
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 9:03 pm

Well for me I think you need you need to have a representative for both guild, and gameplay functions.

I am not a ruling body kind of guy, but that is not to say, I don't want us to take a large role in our community, or to try and instigate positive changes and so on.

Rules stiffle people, and you can sometimes end up with that terrible situation where you become the thing you have set out to try and get away from in the 1st place, you simply exchange one kind of elitism and ignorance for another. I really don't want that, or for us to ever go down that path. It is just how I feel really.

I don't want to ever have to exclude anyone, it may happen, in fact I am sure it will, were someone is simply setting out to cause a problem, to try and ruin other peoples events and generally just be a jerk, we have all come across those types of people, and though I hope they will be few and far between, I do think we will see them, and if they keep it up, you either ban them from events, or you risk banging your head against them all the time.

They will be our biggest problem, how we deal with these people when they come along? I don't have all the answers nor have I ever pretended too, it is why having you all here is so amazing Smile

But as others have said for me, the Senate is not a powerplay, it is a fun thing, just a chance to meet up, organise events, let each other know what we are doing, and so on. Yeah I am sure moments will occur when these meetings take on a more serious tone from time to time, but as with everything in this community, and what I would like to see, is us be about having fun, and promoting that to others, but doing events which encourage others to participate even if it means 'Playing Nice' for a while whilst they do it, keep those events running, keep them fun, and people will just keep those things in them, and bring them into their other gaming experiences Smile

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Ty-Odi
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 9:04 pm

Aldemarran wrote:
My sense of this is that we're trying to create a wide range of possibilities for a broad audience who's only strong common denominator is Respect.

Thus I would see R.I.G. moving more in the direction of a body of "movers and shakers" who initiate things as well as provide a platform for open discussion. I would recommend against forming a list of rules as with every rule you create you are forced to exclude a portion of the population who stand against the rule.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't see the purpose of this group as largely exclusionary, but primarily as inclusionary. The objective seems to me to be to create a place where those who are willing and able to "live and let live and be nice while doing so" can gather. And in so doing hopefully escape the more asinine environments that have allowed a few to largely overrun public gaming environments.

Towards this end I would recommend a minimalist approach to rules and bureaucracy in R.I.G. Allow those herein gathered to form naturally into guilds/clans/etc that have more specific common ground, and allow them to create their own rules and organizations that best represent and support them and their interests. Above this provide a communication layer rather than another organizational layer.

Let this communication layer be used to foster constructive discussion, cooperative events, and even tools for guild searching / recruitment. Those active in the R.I.G. layer may even use their knowledge and skills to make recommendations to guilds wishing to run server-wide events. Also they could well help those looking for guilds by asking about their interests and recommending a handful of guilds that seem to support those interests.

My fear with excessive organization and rules is that you will end up creating a new form of Elitism, rather than escaping it.

Damn it dude!!!! Were you in my head?!?!?!?!? LMFAO!!! Smile that is uncanny!!! haha

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 9:07 pm

One thing that tends to happen when one group is identified as responsible for something, it gets left to them
What i think we should look more to is a very behind the scenes set up, that way there is no public vision of whats happening and who is organising it,
Instead of Player X being in charge and people just waiting for Player X to do stuff, if player X does it behind the scens out of public eye people think its just happens normally, and they will get involved, they will start to do things rather then having one person or one group responsible

You can do it in the public eye if you work with others a few for each position but i do think we may see people not want to contribute and just wait for others to orgaise it again etc
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 9:46 pm

Aldemarran wrote:
My sense of this is that we're trying to create a wide range of possibilities for a broad audience who's only strong common denominator is Respect.

Thus I would see R.I.G. moving more in the direction of a body of "movers and shakers" who initiate things as well as provide a platform for open discussion. I would recommend against forming a list of rules as with every rule you create you are forced to exclude a portion of the population who stand against the rule.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't see the purpose of this group as largely exclusionary, but primarily as inclusionary. The objective seems to me to be to create a place where those who are willing and able to "live and let live and be nice while doing so" can gather. And in so doing hopefully escape the more asinine environments that have allowed a few to largely overrun public gaming environments.

Towards this end I would recommend a minimalist approach to rules and bureaucracy in R.I.G. Allow those herein gathered to form naturally into guilds/clans/etc that have more specific common ground, and allow them to create their own rules and organizations that best represent and support them and their interests. Above this provide a communication layer rather than another organizational layer.

Let this communication layer be used to foster constructive discussion, cooperative events, and even tools for guild searching / recruitment. Those active in the R.I.G. layer may even use their knowledge and skills to make recommendations to guilds wishing to run server-wide events. Also they could well help those looking for guilds by asking about their interests and recommending a handful of guilds that seem to support those interests.

My fear with excessive organization and rules is that you will end up creating a new form of Elitism, rather than escaping it.

Hehe, Ald' and Ty' have the same BRAIN!

Anyways,

I think you are 100% correct. I do not think that Ty/ Selv' intend to make a senate based on anything other that organizational issues. I think the people in that Senate should be just as you said, "Movers and Shakers". Better yet, people with an active interest in each thing they are "in-charge" of promoting. It would never be a "You need to log in at ths time and do this". Quite the opposite, it could be a "You are invited, hope you can make it...if not, its no problem".

Only issue I see in the Senate, is getting the "Right people in the right places". I/E Putting a great PvP organizer..um...in charge of getting PvP events together, etc...again...purely invitational.

So, lets expound upon this, already great, idea..."Senator Duties"

Lastly, I think we can get "volunteers" to want to be senators. They can even "run" for office! This will satify my vast need for humor. Imagine Kai-Sun running on the "Kung-Fu" ticket! Wink....event posting a "campaign topic" site! = hilarious

Lets keep these positive ideas coming RiG. I feel we are really onto something great with the Senate!

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 10:07 pm

i'll put my name down for the role of Janitor? lol.

I would love people to come to the fore, and take control of certain aspects, not one person for each specifically, but a group of PVP leaders, RP leaders, PVE leaders, Events organisers, Community leaders, guild leaders and so on.

I think those kind of people will come to the fore naturally however, and the more of them we have the better.

If I could have my 'Dream Senate' scenario.

I would love a meeting on the Monday for the the PVP community, all the leaders from different guilds, who set out their plans, organise PVP events, and so on that day. On the Wednesday the Raid guys get together, for the same thing, on the Thursday the RP crowd....you get the idea Smile

I would love a ton of guilds involved with any luck, each looking after their own areas, looking into others, offering help and support to members from a guild who specialise in one thing, but want to try out others, and so on.

And every week or two we bring in a representive or two from each area, and have a community meeting, we create a weekly breakdown of plans, post it somewhere on here, and people who were not able to attend at the time will still know what is going on, and can turn up to take part in it, that sort of thing. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 10:13 pm

Darka wrote:
One thing that tends to happen when one group is identified as responsible for something, it gets left to them
What i think we should look more to is a very behind the scenes set up, that way there is no public vision of whats happening and who is organising it,
Instead of Player X being in charge and people just waiting for Player X to do stuff, if player X does it behind the scens out of public eye people think its just happens normally, and they will get involved, they will start to do things rather then having one person or one group responsible

You can do it in the public eye if you work with others a few for each position but i do think we may see people not want to contribute and just wait for others to orgaise it again etc

affraid a shadow government.

Razz

I think a few "events" will require the help of public person though. Kind of hard to organize a tournaments without having somebody give out the prize and count the points.

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 10:50 pm

I really don't think it could be "shadow". I think it should be wide open. In order to include every single member of RiG. Even going to the extent of posting the ENTIRE Senate meetings the next day on the forum itself. That could include everyone offering feedback, and squashing any hint of "Elitism".

If everyone feels involved, you already are ahead of the game. Then, its back to the original "Putting people in spots where they would best help organize"...

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 11:04 pm

public can be fine just be cautious
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G. Senate.   R.I.G. Senate. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 29, 2010 11:54 pm

Alright! Great participation and points in this topic!

I wanna pick some bits up I liked before starting myself... I'll be using them for my own points.

Aldemarran wrote:
Thus I would see R.I.G. moving more in the direction of a body of "movers and shakers" who initiate things as well as provide a platform for open discussion.
...
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't see the purpose of this group as largely exclusionary, but primarily as inclusionary.
...
Towards this end I would recommend a minimalist approach to rules and bureaucracy in R.I.G. (...) Above this provide a communication layer rather than another organizational layer.
...
Let this communication layer be used to foster constructive discussion, cooperative events, and even tools for guild searching / recruitment.
Darka wrote:
One thing that tends to happen when one group is identified as responsible for something, it gets left to them
...
Instead of Player X being in charge and people just waiting for Player X to do stuff, if player X does it behind the scens out of public eye people think its just happens normally, and they will get involved, they will start to do things rather then having one person or one group responsible
...
You can do it in the public eye if you work with others a few for each position but i do think we may see people not want to contribute and just wait for others to orgaise it again etc
By reading this you may have guessed what I'm getting at...

I will declare myself a little against "responsible" persons in a kind of "minister" position (for PvP, PvE, etc).
I am also not entirely convinced we would need guild representatives. Every one should be here because he wants to be here and things shouldn't end up being "negotiations" between all the representatives. Too many cooks will ruin the dish.


I'm with Darka here and think that if you coin a task on one person or a couple of person it might not work out best.
I will instead suggest a sort of groups of "ambassadors" for domains (PvP, ...). These ambassador groups would not have candidates and "runs" for the positions. As Aldemarran positioned very well, we are a group that includes instead of excluding. The ambassador groups should be open to everyone who wants to be a part of them.

Furthermore their role is not entirely organizational: It will be about "moving and shaking", stirring up the ideas, putting them out there to see what the community can make out of and add to them. Then they can pick it up again and do something with it (organizing an event or whatnot). Everyone should be free to share his ideas.

Another way to express what these "ambassadors" are to me: Initiators and background thinkers and finally, when it comes to a point where an idea is ready to be executed, that's when they will do the deed.

Sort of a semi-shadow layer of positions, if you will and to use your words. I also like the term of "communicational layer". Because that is mostly what it should be.

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