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Aldemarran

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PostSubject: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 30, 2010 11:25 pm

This topic got started over in the R.I.G. Senate thread before being given a dose of my own advice and Grome-kicked into its own thread.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<

In the interest of kicking off some discussion of alternative methods/organizations/technologies/processes/rules/etc I'm going to throw out some ideas and see where (if anywhere) they take us.

My Bias:
  • Time is going to be most people's major issue. Getting everyone into one place at the same time with all the required technical capacities is usually a gamer's greatest challenge. Forums largely negate this issue by being always available and having low tech requirements.
  • Communication > Organization because organization can flow naturally and evolve more quickly if it is not "organized". (Yeah yeah, that's a paradox...I'm mostly just trying to describe rather than analyze where I'm coming from here.)
  • As previously stated I see R.I.G. as a communication layer, not an organizational layer.


R.I.G. Methodology Suggestion:
I would recommend that R.I.G. be heavily forum based. I would further recommend that any R.I.G. Senate/Committee/Leadership/Group/etc be organized around the usage of R.I.G. forums. Therefore I suggest having a strong forum architecture oriented around accomplishing this goal. PLEASE NOTE: Outline & Detailed Descriptions are being worked over on page 8. We are working on closing up the last gaps and tweaks on this.

As a start I would recommend having a moderator for every forum type. Obviously we might decide initially to just have one forum that includes both General Discussion and Server Events. The exact level/type/degree/method/etc of "moderation" in these forums would need to be worked out, and would probably involve a discussion much like Ty brought up earlier in the other thread about how to stay on-topic.


Moderators & Voice Chat Suggestion:
I would suggest, though this is a much weaker suggestion, that the Moderator for any given forum pair also Host/Moderate any weekly voice chat discussions such as mentioned by Ty in the other thread. I say this bearing in mind that I question the practicality of voice chat seeing as I've had endless trouble getting people to have functional microphones and setting up Ventrilo (or Teamspeak or Skype or "Whatever"), not to mention that everyone has to be online at the same time (time zone / work schedule issues...).

I will attempt to keep up with the flow of this thread and update this post with suggestions.
CREDITS: Grome, Ty-Odi, Variable, Azarhal

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 30, 2010 11:36 pm

Great summary!

Now this is something to start with!


- Server Events Summary:
As said in the other thread, for the exact way this might be possible it's up to Selv to enlighten us. What would be useful: Threads can be closed by everyone, or threads can't be responded to, or threads are auto-locked upon creation, ...


- Community Aid:
As a counterpart to the Community Aid Events forum - Do we need a Community Aid discussion too? It would probably not be used as much as the others, so is it useful or should it all belong in the Events forum?


- Off Topic:
This will be severely needed. Laughing (>General Forums)


- Welcome & hi forum? (>General Forums)


- Clarification:
It might not be completely obvious what the Riggers forums are for (the way I got it: Feedback and discussions about RiG itself, right? And the heavy one would be the same for moderators)

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 12:02 am

Also, how about Class Forums (not one for every class, just this one Forum called "Class Discussions" in the Discussion Forums?)

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 12:26 am

Awesome Ald', Grome!

But, plz let me know. I was planning on making the other 7 classes off the "Inquisitor Corner" Template...Wink

I can hold off, though...

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 12:29 am

Schwendo wrote:
Awesome Ald', Grome!

But, plz let me know. I was planning on making the other 7 classes off the "Inquisitor Corner" Template...Wink

I can hold off, though...
Really depends if we take over this forum in the end (I think so though?). If we do, there is no problem at all at creating them, as they would just be moved to the appropriate forum then, along with every other thread that needs to go somewhere (by the way, if you need help with that Selv, just make pig noises!).

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 12:40 am

Gotcha,

I'll just add them. We can move it later, if needed Wink


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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 12:42 am

Schwendo wrote:
Awesome Ald', Grome!

But, plz let me know. I was planning on making the other 7 classes off the "Inquisitor Corner" Template...Wink

I can hold off, though...

I think the template you borrowed from the SW:TOR forums was pretty good, what we're discussing here would be where your posts ended up, not what you posted Smile

EDIT: Yeah, what Grome said!

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 12:45 am

I understand Ald'. And, I agree on the format Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 12:45 am

Aldemarran wrote:
As regards the Guild forum pair; I would suggest NOT having a Guild Events Forum because internal events are exactly that, internal and none of our business.

Meant to comment on this in the other thread. Its not so much that it isn't our business, but rather I believe the Event Forum is going to be an avenue for guilds to host events for others in the community. If they want to keep an event in house, then they have their own forums for that.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 12:49 am

Variable wrote:
...Its not so much that it isn't our business, but rather I believe the Event Forum is going to be an avenue for guilds to host events for others in the community. If they want to keep an event in house, then they have their own forums for that.

Hmm, I guess what I'm having trouble with is this; what event would a guild run open to people outside the guild that wouldn't fall into one of the other event categories? A recruiting drive maybe? Not really sure.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 12:51 am

Aldemarran wrote:
Variable wrote:
...Its not so much that it isn't our business, but rather I believe the Event Forum is going to be an avenue for guilds to host events for others in the community. If they want to keep an event in house, then they have their own forums for that.

Hmm, I guess what I'm having trouble with is this; what event would a guild run open to people outside the guild that wouldn't fall into one of the other event categories? A recruiting drive maybe? Not really sure.
I think that was exactly Variable's point: There are no such events that would go outside one of the suggested forums - thus a specialized forum for it is not needed.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 12:53 am

Aldemarran wrote:
Variable wrote:
...Its not so much that it isn't our business, but rather I believe the Event Forum is going to be an avenue for guilds to host events for others in the community. If they want to keep an event in house, then they have their own forums for that.

Hmm, I guess what I'm having trouble with is this; what event would a guild run open to people outside the guild that wouldn't fall into one of the other event categories? A recruiting drive maybe? Not really sure.
We're on the same page. I was saying that if a guild is going to host an event, they'd use the event forum associated with the event type. So there's no need for a Guild Events thread because the other event threads cover it.

Although, a section for guild recruitment would be a good idea, as I know when I got here I was hoping to find a guild of folks who are in line with the RiG ideals.

EDIT: Nevermind, you already have it listed
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 12:59 am

Ah, clarity begins to sink into an enfeebled brain... thanks for the clarification!

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 4:09 am

As for what I am missing (aside from the ones I posted): Events and Discussion for out of game (example: FNC). This could be fit into the Rigger's forum, as that one is still a little vaguely defined between general feedback and general RiG-related discussion. Or what do you think?

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 5:12 am

Grome wrote:
Also, how about Class Forums (not one for every class, just this one Forum called "Class Discussions" in the Discussion Forums?)

I had originally envisioned these as going into the PvE discussion, but I guess that's not entirely appropriate either. Adding...

Also adding Off-Topic and Other Games forums.

I would argue, though I could be dissuaded, that Community Aid Events pairs with the Help Discussion Forum. Perhaps I should rename it from "Help Discussion" to "Community Aid Discussion"? Not sure here. Could be we need another forum, could be we need a more general name.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 5:38 am

Folks, I want to point out that this is still in the wide open phase of development! All of the names are still up for change. Breadth and depth of this organization could probably still use some tweaking. And clearly we're still coming up with ideas for new forums!

An Example: Currently I have "Rigger's Forum" and "Heavy Rigger's Forum" up there. But should it be "Rigging Forum" and "Rigger's Forum" (Rigging = Everything/Everyone, Rigger's = Only those who manage the rigging...)?

Tweak, tweak, tweak! (No, don't get on Twitter and tweet, tweak!!! Very Happy )

Looking forward here:
I am suggesting a broad and extensive design because I expect this to become a resource for a large and diverse population. Am I wrong? If we go forwards with a simple design there will be a lot of pain later for Selven to split a single topic into multiple topics. This is a lot of work if there are a lot of topics to sort. Yet at the start we may end up with a lot of under-utilized space.

If all this went live here tomorrow (don't worry, it won't! tongue ), I know several of these forums should be locked down until at least Open Beta.

I would particularly like further discussion of the "Class Forum" idea with respect to future size and encumbrance. Will it be manageable just by using stickies for guides and collected info? Or do we really need to break it down to a class by class forum set? This is one that will be a nightmare to separate six months after the game goes live. And if we do break it out class by class, what happens to the "Class vs. Class" and "Class with Class" discussions?

@Selven specifically:
This is shaping up to be a non-trivial amount of work, even in the setup. Do you have the time? Is having it later going to be worth the work now? Can you share the load at all? I think this is a good idea, but I'm biased lol! Your input is going to be very decisive here. I don't want to pressure you into a corner, I'm quite willing to work within constraints of practicality! in short, we would love to hear from you on this Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 9:56 am

Aldemarran wrote:
I would argue, though I could be dissuaded, that Community Aid Events pairs with the Help Discussion Forum. Perhaps I should rename it from "Help Discussion" to "Community Aid Discussion"? Not sure here. Could be we need another forum, could be we need a more general name.
You're probably right, it might just be a naming issue, as the both of these topics would not require more space than this one forum. So how to put the name? Maybe calling it "Aid & Assistance" will make it more accessible?

Aldemarran wrote:
Folks, I want to point out that this is still in the wide open phase of development! All of the names are still up for change. Breadth and depth of this organization could probably still use some tweaking. And clearly we're still coming up with ideas for new forums!

An Example: Currently I have "Rigger's Forum" and "Heavy Rigger's Forum" up there. But should it be "Rigging Forum" and "Rigger's Forum" (Rigging = Everything/Everyone, Rigger's = Only those who manage the rigging...)?
I absolutely agree - though maybe you should add that to the original post?
As for the "Rigger's" forums, I'd say there might be a better name, as this might just be confusing some?
Suggestions: "R.I.G. Corner", for the other "R.I.G. Desk"...

Aldemarran wrote:
I am suggesting a broad and extensive design because I expect this to become a resource for a large and diverse population. Am I wrong? If we go forwards with a simple design there will be a lot of pain later for Selven to split a single topic into multiple topics. This is a lot of work if there are a lot of topics to sort. Yet at the start we may end up with a lot of under-utilized space.

If all this went live here tomorrow (don't worry, it won't! tongue ), I know several of these forums should be locked down until at least Open Beta.

I would particularly like further discussion of the "Class Forum" idea with respect to future size and encumbrance. Will it be manageable just by using stickies for guides and collected info? Or do we really need to break it down to a class by class forum set? This is one that will be a nightmare to separate six months after the game goes live. And if we do break it out class by class, what happens to the "Class vs. Class" and "Class with Class" discussions?
I support a broader design. We don't know how big it will get in here, but once you're past a certain amount of posting it becomes just terribly cluttered if there aren't enough subforums. And as you said: It's easier to do it earlier than later. And I assume we will need it at some point...

About the Class split up: This is an important one indeed. Currently it is far from being needed. Then again, how will it look like 6 months from now, with the game released and a lot more members? It may be better to split them up indeed. It may seem futile at first, but at some point we will clearly see the benefit I believe.
And I generally believe it is better to have a couple of rather empty forums (at first they will be), that are "hidden away" in the header categories, than some forums that mix everything up and have you looking for topics among other subjects. Yes, it will be many categories, but you will surely be able to expand/retract the forums so you only see what you need to...
As for the exact way to split up, what I suggest, aside from the 8 Class forums would be a single complementary "General Class Discussion" forum. That would surely be able to handle the Class vs. Class and Class with Class discussion. (so 9 subforums for the Class Discussion)

This leaves me with the "Welcome" forum, that will also still be needed imo (into "General Forums" header probably).

Aldemarran wrote:
This is shaping up to be a non-trivial amount of work, even in the setup. Do you have the time? Is having it later going to be worth the work now? Can you share the load at all? I think this is a good idea, but I'm biased lol! Your input is going to be very decisive here. I don't want to pressure you into a corner, I'm quite willing to work within constraints of practicality! in short, we would love to hear from you on this Very Happy
I think we agree that we wouldn't want Selv to have to shoulder the crazy ideas we're coming up with here. lol
I believe she can distribute the rights to help her as she sees fit (might also just be temp rights just so we can get this done).

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 1:18 pm

Grome wrote:
...This leaves me with the "Welcome" forum, that will also still be needed imo (into "General Forums" header probably)...

Knew I was missing something...

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 1:33 pm

Great! So, do any other people have thoughts?

Namely, maybe:

- Rigger's/Heavy Rigger's forum naming?
It's pretty much a Feedback & everything else concerning RiG directly (such as out of game events, discussions for RiG)
[Suggestions: RiG Corner/RiG Desk - were mine, but I'm not really happy with these either, so if you have an idea?]

- Class forum split up?
[I say yes (read up why two posts back)]

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 9:53 pm

I am in agreement on the class forums. At first I was a little leary about having a space that is starting to mirror the official forums in topic breadth, but actually it makes sense now that I think about it. We all want a place to talk and discuss these points of the game in an environment of mutual respect. Its sort of like a reverse EJ, if you think about it.

I'm not sure about the Rigger's forum name - I'm leaning RiG Corner though
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 9:59 pm

Yes, I think people will be happy to have an own class forum in here instead of everything being messed up. It's just so much more comfortable and easy.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 10:24 pm

My comments:

We need class specifics forums or at least a Republic/Empire split. Having all 8*2 classes * Companions in one spot might be a bit too much, especially for searching specific subject (rule of page #1) and the speed at which people post here already.

I remember a suggestion of having a "In-game Trade" forum as well, for people who wish to trade with community members or seek something specific. Would be in Discussion Forums I guess. May I suggest it get renamed to Game Discussion Forums too?

Maybe having a general Tech Troubleshooting forum as well, with tips/link/etc for people who have problems running TOR. Unless it is a part of the Help Discussion?

Will we required a "spoiler" PvE forum for the stories discussion? PvE forum usually talk about game mechanic, but here we also have specific story content for planets and classes. I think it might be a good idea. I do know that BioWare create spoiler and no spoiler forum for their games.


And technically this thread should probably be in the "Forum Help & Feedback" sub-forum.

This is all for now.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 10:29 pm

azarhal wrote:
My comments:
I remember a suggestion of having a "In-game Trade" forum as well, for people who wish to trade with community members or seek something specific. Would be in Discussion Forums I guess. May I suggest it get renamed to Game Discussion Forums too?

Sounds like that should couple in some way with the Crafting area. Assuming Crafting becomes as specialized as BioWare has been advertising.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 11:20 pm

azarhal wrote:
We need class specifics forums or at least a Republic/Empire split. Having all 8*2 classes * Companions in one spot might be a bit too much, especially for searching specific subject (rule of page #1) and the speed at which people post here already.
We wouldn't need one for every AC. I think one for every class and a general class discussion would be good enough (9 in total). Empire/Republic split might not be enough but maybe I am just overestimating the amount of posts that will come in, so I don't know...

azarhal wrote:
I remember a suggestion of having a "In-game Trade" forum as well, for people who wish to trade with community members or seek something specific. Would be in Discussion Forums I guess. May I suggest it get renamed to Game Discussion Forums too?
Variable wrote:
Sounds like that should couple in some way with the Crafting area. Assuming Crafting becomes as specialized as BioWare has been advertising.
Good call, Az! I would not put this "Trade Forum" in the crafting area however as that is supposed to be about crafting related discussions, I suggest.
Why not put it in the discussions forum indeed? I second the idea to rename it: "Game Discussion Forums" does put it better.

azarhal wrote:
Maybe having a general Tech Troubleshooting forum as well, with tips/link/etc for people who have problems running TOR. Unless it is a part of the Help Discussion?
That is pretty much what the Help Discussion would be about though we have already agreed it might not be the best name for it... Any suggestions?

azarhal wrote:
Will we required a "spoiler" PvE forum for the stories discussion? PvE forum usually talk about game mechanic, but here we also have specific story content for planets and classes. I think it might be a good idea. I do know that BioWare create spoiler and no spoiler forum for their games.
Another good idea. While we do have a spoiler tag in the forums, story will be a very big deal and people might be interested to talk about that a lot. So maybe a "Story Discussion" forum?

azarhal wrote:
And technically this thread should probably be in the "Forum Help & Feedback" sub-forum.
That is somehow the "Rigger's Forum". So we already have it in place, but the name doesn't help much (suggestions?). It would be for everything RiG-related that is not ingame (Feedback, RL Events, etc)

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 01, 2010 11:30 pm

Well, I have an idea for the 'Trade Forum'

And I will be posting more on that later Smile

Basic premise is it would work very much like the trade forums on SWG for anyone who played it and remembers them? I will and I hope others do too, use it to sell items I have come across but do not need to you guys for a far lower price total than say they may fetch on the open market, as i would prefer to help you guys out, than credit cap myself in yet another game, lol. Smile

I just think a nice internal RiG community auction house or something would work really nicely, and allow us to barter for items fairly, and just to help each other out if people need things? could also be used for things like resource contracts, item contracts, and so on Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? I_icon_minitime

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