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Grome
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Grome

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Location : Geneva, Switzerland

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 17, 2011 2:37 am

Aldemarran wrote:
Yeah, I was worried for a bit there when we started cycling arguments back into the conversation, but I think the reset (painful though it was) has got things moving forwards again.
I think that was a minor issue. Smile We're really plowing the field here as far as I'm concerned. I'd never have thought there's so much to discuss about a "simple" forum layout when we first started on this, lol.
Az is really helping too!

Aldemarran wrote:
I also like Feline Shenanigans, Feline Sanity, and few others along those lines... Very Happy
Cats are the best, hah!

Aldemarran wrote:
No, I don't work Saturdays but I spend 3-5 hours training / assisting with classes in a survival based martial art. I train Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday as well which is why I don't get a lot of time to spend here in the middle of the week. Then there are the events which eat 6-8 hours of active training + setup time which happen about once a month. That can be either Saturday or Sunday. If I then go hang out with real-life friends (some geeks have them, who knew? Razz ) time can be a very precious commodity...
That's a lot of dedicated time. What's it called?
Survival based means more close to reality, right? In a way that it doesn't include repetitive movements and everything.

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azarhal

azarhal

Posts : 866
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Location : Frosty Canada

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Class: Smuggler
Guild: Maybe Serenity

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 17, 2011 12:22 pm

Grome wrote:
Az is really helping too!

I am? flower

Quote :
[b]Character Optimization: {Class} = "The place to discuss how to get the most out of the {Class}."

"The place to discuss how to get the most out of the Trooper."
vs
"The place to discuss how to get the most out of your Trooper."

I prefer "out of your". Make it more personal.



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Aldemarran

Aldemarran

Posts : 365
Join date : 2010-11-13
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Class: Imperial Agent
Guild: Redacted

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 17, 2011 1:11 pm

Grome wrote:
...
Aldemarran wrote:
No, I don't work Saturdays but I spend 3-5 hours training / assisting with classes in a survival based martial art. I train Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday as well which is why I don't get a lot of time to spend here in the middle of the week. Then there are the events which eat 6-8 hours of active training + setup time which happen about once a month. That can be either Saturday or Sunday. If I then go hang out with real-life friends (some geeks have them, who knew? Razz ) time can be a very precious commodity...
That's a lot of dedicated time. What's it called?
Survival based means more close to reality, right? In a way that it doesn't include repetitive movements and everything.

Reality Defense Training is the name. What is "survival based"? We define 3 types of martial art:
  1. Exhibition = Jackie Chan movies make the easiest example. They look great and are really fun to watch. But watch the blooper reals afterwards to understand that even in a studio with a "cooperative opponent" these things don't work perfectly every time.
  2. Competition = Often these teach you to be even more athletic, have good power in your strikes, and even learn timing and such. The primary weakness is that they have rules on what they and their opponents can do to each other. To not train to do or deal with something is to train not to do or deal with it. This is because you'll do what you're trained to do under stress, not some completely new thing.
  3. Survival = Out on the street it only takes getting stomped in the head about 7 times to cause the ER doctor to say "If your son lives he'll be a vegtable." (Miraculously the kid did make a full recovery.) Your opponent is likely to be in this not just to give you a beat down, but to kill you. Your opponent will resort to all those things a referee would never allow. Things like Eyes, Ears, Fingers, Groin, Bite. Be prepared.


Basically survival based means that we concern ourselves heavily with a consideration of what happens under stress and the other guy is actively resisting your actions. Our general assumptions are that you'll do what you've trained to do under stress, but only about 50% as effectively. This leads to some foundational principles such as:
  • Common Delivery = Don't have a different response to every little change in your opponent's attacks. You won't have time to think that much in combat. Also, your opponent won't throw an attack exactly here or there. It'll be all over the place and your defense needs to be functional even if you aren't perfect.
  • Margin for Error = Each trained response should be effective even if you screw it up a little... because you won't be perfect. Train perfectly so that your screw ups will be smaller. Remember that under the effects of adrenaline fine motor control goes to hades (<--- Selven Profanity Filter activated)

We also offer a lot of adrenal stress training in the form of "Redman" classes. In these classes the instructors do everything possible to up your stress / adrenaline levels before pitting you full-contact against a guy in a foam suit. (You go full-contact, not the Redman!)

And that's the sales pitch, if you'll just sign on the dotted line you can fly half way around the world once a week to take classes! ROFL...

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Aldemarran

Aldemarran

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 17, 2011 6:57 pm

Grome wrote:
Aldemarran wrote:
Character Optimization
Multiplayer Optimization perhaps?

Let's see, it is character optimization that concerns more than one class, so yes, multiplayer (character) optimization makes good sense. For now it's certainly the best I've heard!
What about "General Optimization Discussion"?
If we agree that all single player optimization should be written up in one of the class forums, then I think it is worth it to be specific. I think I prefer "Group Optimization Discussion" at this point.

Grome wrote:
1) As for the issue of people wanting to seek across the two factions. I think this is really a very small minority, which in the case it was really needed could still post on both sides.
In my post above I have "seeking" as an own forum but I'm certain these would not get a lot of attention. Question is therefore: Just a sticky instead? My fear is that this would get a little in the way of a good overview. If you're looking for members (as a guild) you'll want some overview too, right?
What would a person write in a "seeking" post? A description of themselves and what they are looking for. What would be the reply? "We think we fit that, come check us out." Why not just check out the guild advertisements in the first place?

The only time someone might have a problem is if they were looking for something very, very specific that is not generally mentioned in an advertisement post. "I'm looking for a guild that has an open slot in a Wednesday evening raid after 5pm EST."

  • How many of that sort of thing are there that would truly benefit from a seeking thread/post?
  • Do we really need a seeking thread/forum after all?
  • Even if we create such a thing, how many posts would we get in such a thread?
  • Could we really justify a full-on separate forum?
  • Should we be even vaguely encouraging people to ignore the guild recruiting threads and try to make the guilds do all the work?


Grome wrote:
2) I pretty much know what that General Guild Discussion Forum is for. I'm just pondering over its use. I reckon it would not be used a great deal, so should we keep it, or should discussions of that kind be moved into the "General Game Discussion" Forum up in the "Game Discussion" group? I have no clue, help me figure it out.
I can see why it might fit under General Game Discussion, but if I were thinking to myself, "I wonder if someone has written a guide to creating a guild?" I would probably look under the guild header before checking a general header.

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Grome
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Grome

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 17, 2011 8:24 pm

Aldemarran wrote:
If we agree that all single player optimization should be written up in one of the class forums, then I think it is worth it to be specific. I think I prefer "Group Optimization Discussion" at this point.
Well, it doesn't have to be group related. I could imagine people wanting to compare, "Is Smuggler build C or Trooper build B more viable for raiding?" Does that make sense?

Aldemarran wrote:
What would a person write in a "seeking" post? A description of themselves and what they are looking for. What would be the reply? "We think we fit that, come check us out." Why not just check out the guild advertisements in the first place?

The only time someone might have a problem is if they were looking for something very, very specific that is not generally mentioned in an advertisement post. "I'm looking for a guild that has an open slot in a Wednesday evening raid after 5pm EST."

  • How many of that sort of thing are there that would truly benefit from a seeking thread/post?
  • Do we really need a seeking thread/forum after all?
  • Even if we create such a thing, how many posts would we get in such a thread?
  • Could we really justify a full-on separate forum?
  • Should we be even vaguely encouraging people to ignore the guild recruiting threads and try to make the guilds do all the work?
I agree that an own forum, maybe even a sticky is too much. I just checked the thread on the official forums that has that purpose and it's got no more than 80 replies. This is ridiculous for a multi-thousand community. I say we leave it out entirely.

Aldemarran wrote:
I can see why it might fit under General Game Discussion, but if I were thinking to myself, "I wonder if someone has written a guide to creating a guild?" I would probably look under the guild header before checking a general header.
Well, the question is really not where it fits best but whether we need a General Guild Discussion forum. It feels like this might end up being a rarely used forum.
For the sake of better decision-making, we should try and see what exactly there would be in that forum.
I can think of guides, discussion about guilds, maybe guilds showing off something (a video of their latest bosskill for instance). Plus what about those guilds that want to introduce themselves to the community but don't recruit?
If you can come up with more, please do.
For the guides and and discussions it's true there is no place that feels better, but it could just as well fit in General Game Discussion, I don't think that these guides and discussions (wouldn't be too many of them) justify a very own forum.
Guilds showing off something is not that common... And for every scenario where they might I'm sure there is another forum that could fill in as well. For bosskill videos for instance you could certainly fit it in PvE Discussion. °°° By the way, what do you think of a Raid Discussion forum? The necessity for such a forum will of course depend on what BW does with endgame °°°
Moving on, what about the guilds that want to introduce themselves to the community? Fair point. However, I see a simple solution here too. They create a post in the recruitment forum for their faction and put "no" in the Recruiting line. On top of that we should consider renaming it something else than "Recruitment" forum. Maybe Guild Introduction or something like that.
Anyway, so why am I fighting to remove that forum? I'm just in doubt over whether this forum would be very useful and if it's just for a couple of threads that's really not convincing. However, please argue against this, I'd like to hear your points.

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Grome
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Grome

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Join date : 2010-11-15
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Location : Geneva, Switzerland

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 17, 2011 11:07 pm

azarhal wrote:
"The place to discuss how to get the most out of the Trooper."
vs
"The place to discuss how to get the most out of your Trooper."

I prefer "out of your". Make it more personal.
I'm okay with that! flower

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Aldemarran

Aldemarran

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 18, 2011 12:16 pm

Grome wrote:
Aldemarran wrote:
If we agree that all single player optimization should be written up in one of the class forums, then I think it is worth it to be specific. I think I prefer "Group Optimization Discussion" at this point.
Well, it doesn't have to be group related. I could imagine people wanting to compare, "Is Smuggler build C or Trooper build B more viable for raiding?" Does that make sense?
But that very example is a discussion of group dynamics in the game. It would fall under a more general heading of "Group Composition Discussion". This is why I approached the issue from the side of "all single class discussion now have a place therefore everything left must fit into group discussion".

If "General Group Discussion" evolves too specific a meaning in people's minds I recommend altering the title. "Group and Class Comparison Discussion" comes to mind immediately given the example. "Group Optimization and other Multi-Class Discussions" might be better at creating an inherent guideline for people to follow.

Grome wrote:
Aldemarran wrote:
I can see why it might fit under General Game Discussion, but if I were thinking to myself, "I wonder if someone has written a guide to creating a guild?" I would probably look under the guild header before checking a general header.
Well, the question is really not where it fits best but whether we need a General Guild Discussion forum. It feels like this might end up being a rarely used forum.
For the sake of better decision-making, we should try and see what exactly there would be in that forum.
I can think of guides, discussion about guilds, maybe guilds showing off something (a video of their latest bosskill for instance). Plus what about those guilds that want to introduce themselves to the community but don't recruit?
If you can come up with more, please do.
For the guides and and discussions it's true there is no place that feels better, but it could just as well fit in General Game Discussion, I don't think that these guides and discussions (wouldn't be too many of them) justify a very own forum.
Guilds showing off something is not that common... And for every scenario where they might I'm sure there is another forum that could fill in as well. For bosskill videos for instance you could certainly fit it in PvE Discussion. °°° By the way, what do you think of a Raid Discussion forum? The necessity for such a forum will of course depend on what BW does with endgame °°°
My original intent had been for raid discussions to go on under the PvE forum, however I may have to reconsider that now that things have evolved. I may have to entirely reconsider the PvE and PvP forums for that matter.

Grome wrote:
Moving on, what about the guilds that want to introduce themselves to the community? Fair point. However, I see a simple solution here too. They create a post in the recruitment forum for their faction and put "no" in the Recruiting line. On top of that we should consider renaming it something else than "Recruitment" forum. Maybe Guild Introduction or something like that.
Anyway, so why am I fighting to remove that forum? I'm just in doubt over whether this forum would be very useful and if it's just for a couple of threads that's really not convincing. However, please argue against this, I'd like to hear your points.
We are already requiring guilds to post a "Restrictions:" line at the top of their forum post. We should simply make clear that they tag it "Not Accepting Recruits" if they don't want applicants. We also need to encourage them to keep that line up to date as their guild evolves.

I think I would recommend "[Faction] Guild Introductions and Recruiting" as having the word 'recruiting' in the title helps people find their way for its primary purpose.

With regards to usage levels, I expect there will be a need for more general guild discussions for at least 2 additional reasons. Guild Capital ships I expect will be at least somewhat customizable, as well as all the other ways one can customize their guild. Second people should have a place to at least broach the subject of an alliance or rivalry. Possibly there may be a need for discussion guild achievements (or whatever they may end up being called) as well.

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Last edited by Aldemarran on Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Grammarlessness)
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Grome
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Grome

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 18, 2011 12:44 pm

Aldemarran wrote:
But that very example is a discussion of group dynamics in the game. It would fall under a more general heading of "Group Composition Discussion". This is why I approached the issue from the side of "all single class discussion now have a place therefore everything left must fit into group discussion".

If "General Group Discussion" evolves too specific a meaning in people's minds I recommend altering the title. "Group and Class Comparison Discussion" comes to mind immediately given the example. "Group Optimization and other Multi-Class Discussions" might be better at creating an inherent guideline for people to follow.

Well, the criteria I think makes the most sense for that forum is "concerns more than one class". I suggest, shortened your suggestion, "Multi-Class Optimization Discussion". It's short and well clear. The "Optimization" is optional, we could also call it "Multi-Class Discussion".

Aldemarran wrote:
My original intent had been for raid discussions to go on under the PvE forum, however I may have to reconsider that now that things have evolved. I may have to entirely reconsider the PvE and PvP forums for that matter.

Well, it's been a while since we actually suggested the forums and we couldn't exactly know what we'd need so we were to an extent guessing our needs. It's still hard to say right now if a forum will be as useful as we expect. In the end it's not about creating the perfect layout but one that is well prepared. We can always change things later, if that is needed.

What do you want to reconsider about the PvE and PvP forums?
As for Raid, that is one topic that can get really big. Potentially, are there other topics we haven't taken into consideration yet that could justify their own forum?

Aldemarran wrote:
We are already requiring guilds to post a "Restrictions:" line at the top of their forum post. We should simply make clear that they tag it "Not Accepting Recruits" if they don't want applicants. We also need to encourage them to keep that line up to date as their guild evolves.

Thought we were on two lines at the top. "Recruiting" (Yes/No) and "Restrictions" (Age, level, ...).

Aldemarran wrote:
I think I would recommend "[Faction] Guild Introductions and Recruiting" as having the word 'recruiting' in the title helps people find their way for its primary purpose.
Right now I'm looking at this:
*Guild Hall (maybe there's a better name)
¬ General Guild Discussion
¬ Empire Guild Introductions and Recruiting
¬ Republic Guild Introductions and Recruiting

Seems a little long though? Maybe cut "Guild" out. It's pretty clear it's about guilds in the guild forum, right? "Empire: Introductions and Recruitment".
Another thought is, to make it easier for recruits-to-be, add another tag to the guild title specifying whether the guild is recruiting or not.

Aldemarran wrote:
With regards to usage levels, I expect there will be a need for more general guild discussions for at least 2 additional reasons. Guild Capital ships I expect will be at least somewhat customizable, as well as all the other ways one can customize their guild. Second people should have a place to at least broach the subject of an alliance or rivalry. Possibly there may be a need for discussion guild achievements (or whatever they may end up being called) as well.
Fair enough, you convinced me, let's keep it then!

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Grome
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Grome

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 18, 2011 1:38 pm

I found some Redman videos on YT but how that didn't give me much of an idea how someone "trained" in reality defense would defend himself in certain scenarios.

Another survival based martial art that has intrigued me for some time is "Systema", a Russian martial art. You can find a lot of videos for that on YT. At first it sometimes looks fake but it's not. It's a very interesting approach to self-defense and I'm thinking about picking it up sometime soon.

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Aldemarran

Aldemarran

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 19, 2011 12:47 am

Grome wrote:
I found some Redman videos on YT but how that didn't give me much of an idea how someone "trained" in reality defense would defend himself in certain scenarios.

Another survival based martial art that has intrigued me for some time is "Systema", a Russian martial art. You can find a lot of videos for that on YT. At first it sometimes looks fake but it's not. It's a very interesting approach to self-defense and I'm thinking about picking it up sometime soon.

We only have a couple promo videos up on youtube which, as you say, doesn't give you much on how we defend ourselves. You can check them out here. But since you don't live close enough to check us out...

If I were where you are, I would look for Krav Maga, the Israeli fighting system. From what I've seen their techniques they have more margin for error than Systema. The first thing to go when adrenaline hits your system is fine motor control, so doing very precise nerve striking or catching / striking a fast moving, resistive target becomes much more difficult. Therefore the larger the area into which the opponent's attack can go and still be blocked / trapped, the better.

P.S. If you're really worried about the forthcoming zombie apocalypse, I highly recommend this self defense system to your attention...
lol!

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Aldemarran

Aldemarran

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 19, 2011 2:18 am

Multi-Class Optimization Discussion it is then.

PvE and PvP Forums
I wonder how much the Multi-Class stuff has encroached on what was originally targeted for the PvE and PvP forums? After reviewing what we have in the class forums I think PvE mostly has Strategy Guides left in it. Guides for Raids, Flashpoints, difficult Quests, general Leveling Guides, Crew Skills Guides. There should be equivalents for most of those in the PvP thread as well. Probably just need to re-write them to reflect that.

Required Header Lines
I was thinking there was only one line left, but maybe I leap-frogged a bit. So to make my argument, if we can cover it all in the Restrictions: line clearly then why have a separate line for Recruiting?

Guild Section Forum Names
After looking at the forums I don't think there's a guarantee that the section header will be the first thing newcomers see. I therefore believe we need to keep the word guild in each title. I have this crazy thought to use the word convention.
  • Guild Convention
    • Guild Discussion
    • Empire Guild Hall
    • Republic Guild Hall

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Grome
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 19, 2011 3:02 am

Aldemarran wrote:
PvE and PvP Forums
I wonder how much the Multi-Class stuff has encroached on what was originally targeted for the PvE and PvP forums? After reviewing what we have in the class forums I think PvE mostly has Strategy Guides left in it. Guides for Raids, Flashpoints, difficult Quests, general Leveling Guides, Crew Skills Guides. There should be equivalents for most of those in the PvP thread as well. Probably just need to re-write them to reflect that.
About those last two: Leveling guides would go in the "Leveling Discussion" forum (we could argue whether this one is still needed, I reckon we could fit it in PvE). Crew Skills guides would go in "Crafting Discussion" (this one I think might make sense to keep, crafting is gonna be big - but arguably it could fit in PvE as well).
In both cases, actually in all cases (raid amongst others as well) we need to judge whether it is big enough a topic to get its own forum. Or do we want to try to keep it as compact as possible and put it all in PvE?

Aldemarran wrote:
Required Header Lines
I was thinking there was only one line left, but maybe I leap-frogged a bit. So to make my argument, if we can cover it all in the Restrictions: line clearly then why have a separate line for Recruiting?
That's true. We just have to make sure it is clear for the thread creators. Restrictions line will either be "not recruiting" or the restriction if they are recruiting (or none if they don't have any).

Aldemarran wrote:
Guild Section Forum Names
After looking at the forums I don't think there's a guarantee that the section header will be the first thing newcomers see. I therefore believe we need to keep the word guild in each title. I have this crazy thought to use the word convention.
  • Guild Convention
    • Guild Discussion
    • Empire Guild Hall
    • Republic Guild Hall
After taking a look I agree it is best to keep the names of the forums as apparent as possible.
Convention sounds very unusual but I'm not entirely opposed to the idea.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 19, 2011 3:32 am

I suppose the main reason I called it something other than a hall was because Guild Hall to me means my Guild Hall, an RP space in which all guild chat occurs as far is characters are concerned. Though in Star Wars that's probably just a comm channel. I would still tend to think of a Guild Hall as one guild's residence.

Guild Convention Hall maybe?

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 19, 2011 5:40 pm

Actually, I think Guild Convention sounds better than Guild Convention Hall. As far as I'm concerned your first suggestion fits fine.


What about the Game Discussion forums?
Right now, this is what we have:

¬ General Game Discussion
¬ Game Story Discussion
¬ PvE Discussion
¬ PvP Discussion
¬ Class Discussion (group)
¬ Crafting Discussion
¬ Leveling Discussion
¬ UI & Add-On Discussion (in case they're allowed, which I expect)

I underlined those I personally deem absolutely necessary. Feel free to do the same, or explain your take on this.
I know we're backtracking a little with this but we never really discussed this in full detail.

Leveling Discussion: It's one of the forums that I would scrap first, if there was something to scrap. So do we need it? For any other MMO I'd probably say "no" right away but leveling is a more prominent factor in TOR, so I'm hoping either time or you can tell me.

Class Discussion: Now this is needed of course, you'll say.
My point is, with the CO forums and these that's a lot of class forums. We could rearrange that whole class-based forum bunch in a single group, I suppose.
Something like this:

CLASS FORUMS (group)
  • Multi-Class Discussion (keep Optimization and General Discussion in one forum for this one?)
  • Trooper (group)
    • Optimization Discussion
    • General Discussion

  • … (reiterate for remaining classes)



Possible forum additions in the Game Discussion group shall also be named. There is Raid Discussion most notably.
Should that one be added or not? It's part of PvE, yes. But if it gets too big a topic it's better to rip it out.
Arguably, we could just wait and see if this one proves necessary, but if we can make the decision now, let's try.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 19, 2011 10:40 pm

Aldemarran wrote:
We only have a couple promo videos up on youtube which, as you say, doesn't give you much on how we defend ourselves. You can check them out here. But since you don't live close enough to check us out...

If I were where you are, I would look for Krav Maga, the Israeli fighting system. From what I've seen their techniques they have more margin for error than Systema. The first thing to go when adrenaline hits your system is fine motor control, so doing very precise nerve striking or catching / striking a fast moving, resistive target becomes much more difficult. Therefore the larger the area into which the opponent's attack can go and still be blocked / trapped, the better.

P.S. If you're really worried about the forthcoming zombie apocalypse, I highly recommend this self defense system to your attention...
lol!
Krav Maga looks very interesting and more effective than Systema, of which I've read a couple of dis-encouraging info on martial arts forums. Gonna look into it I guess!

Also gotta buy some "ammunition" for the machete-crossbow I will soon acquire! Razz
Man, that guy IS PREPARED.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 20, 2011 12:25 am

I take Tai Chi from a master that teaches the self defense aspects as well, but it will be years before i could functionally use it in a street fight. I've been interested in Krav Maga but there is no one within 300 miles of me that teaches it.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 20, 2011 5:00 am

Grome wrote:
...
Class Discussion: Now this is needed of course, you'll say.
My point is, with the CO forums and these that's a lot of class forums. We could rearrange that whole class-based forum bunch in a single group, I suppose.
Something like this:

CLASS FORUMS (group)
  • Multi-Class Discussion (keep Optimization and General Discussion in one forum for this one?)
  • Trooper (group)
    • Optimization Discussion
    • General Discussion

  • … (reiterate for remaining classes)
I like this, but I worry that this will create "group spam" that breaks up the forum excessively. I don't know if there's such a thing as "sub-groups". I suspect we'll end up with just a series of class forums listed in alphabetical order.

Grome wrote:
Possible forum additions in the Game Discussion group shall also be named. There is Raid Discussion most notably.
Should that one be added or not? It's part of PvE, yes. But if it gets too big a topic it's better to rip it out.
Arguably, we could just wait and see if this one proves necessary, but if we can make the decision now, let's try.
I agree with your take on what's necessary and what's optional. As for a Raid Forum, it might be good to have as a place to post strategies, but I think it might take heavily away from what's left of the PvE forum. Maybe have PvE as a group and sub-forums for Leveling, Crafting, Quests, Groups, and Raids? Something similar for PvP?

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 20, 2011 12:39 pm

Aldemarran wrote:
I like this, but I worry that this will create "group spam" that breaks up the forum excessively. I don't know if there's such a thing as "sub-groups". I suspect we'll end up with just a series of class forums listed in alphabetical order.
Well, groups within groups don't look the same at all. Those "sub-groups" take up a lot less space, as do their forums especially. I'm not gonna try to explain this any better, take a look over at respectingaming.com, where such a sub-group is already in place for the class discussion currently.
Therefore the layout for class forums I just suggested would require only a very small amount of extra room.
HOWEVER, I figure, the forum is already rather big, so I have "come up" with a more efficient way to put all the class related forums in one group. Here it is:

  • CLASS DISCUSSION (group)
    • General Class Discussion (subgroup)
      • Trooper
      • ...
    • Optimization Discussion (subgroup)
      • Trooper
      • ...


So instead of a class split there is a general / optimization split, which is much more space saving, if you look at how "sub-groups" arrange their forums in the forum overview.

(I have removed the Multi-Class Discussion forum because as it turns out, "sub-groups" DO allow posting, which means the Multi-Class Discussion finds its place in each respective header forum - this also means that this way to split is makes way more sense)

Furthermore, what do you think about "Class Mechanics" instead of "Optimization Discussion" to make the difference to "General Class Discussion" more clear.

Aldemarran wrote:
I agree with your take on what's necessary and what's optional. As for a Raid Forum, it might be good to have as a place to post strategies, but I think it might take heavily away from what's left of the PvE forum. Maybe have PvE as a group and sub-forums for Leveling, Crafting, Quests, Groups, and Raids? Something similar for PvP?
That does sound like an interesting solution. A further advantage of this method is that if we decide it is after all better left in one forum merging them later is infinitely more simple than splitting them afterwards.
Another remark: I don't feel "PvE" applies to crafting.


We could further win space by putting together General Game Discussion, Game Story Discussion, Crafting Discussion (which is, like I said, not PvE for me - feel free to disagree) and UI&Add-On Discussion in one group, possibly "General Game Discussion". This sub-header will have all the general game discussion in it (for which we had an own forum before) and have, obviously, the following forums in it: Game Story, Crafting and UI & Add-Ons.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 20, 2011 1:07 pm

Just to summarize and have a better look at it, this is how Game Discussion would look (read my previous post first):

(for future reference, I am now calling the sub-groups "headers" to differentiate more easily)

  • GAME DISCUSSION (group)
    • General Game Discussion (header)
      • Game Story Discussion
      • Crafting Discussion
      • UI & Add-On Discussion
    • PvE Discussion (header)
      • Raid Discussion
      • Leveling Discussion
      • ...
    • PvP Discussion (header)
      • {forums TBD}

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 21, 2011 1:04 pm

Grome wrote:
...
Furthermore, what do you think about "Class Mechanics" instead of "Optimization Discussion" to make the difference to "General Class Discussion" more clear.
...

The sub-forums have no descriptions on them, so we're relying heavily on the "over-forum" to explain what they are. It might work if we can fit "with sub-forums for specific class optimization" into the description under the clickable title. I'd probably have to see it to be sure it works.

More this evening (I hope).

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 22, 2011 12:25 am

Is there any reason NOT to start discussing this directly on the new forum?

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 22, 2011 12:31 am

Certainly would make sense. The only reason I could think of is all the info we have accumulated in this thread we might need to check back on. However, that's just senseless laziness, so why not move it over to the new forum, okay. Smile

See you over there Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 22, 2011 1:31 pm

One thing for me, which might make it look a but neater though, is would it be possible to have all the sub forums hidden until you open them? Just keeps the headers neater?

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 22, 2011 1:46 pm

It's a good point. Let's see if I can find that.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 14 I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 22, 2011 11:29 pm

Would it be too early to suggest that we lock this thread with links front and back to the new thread on the new forums?

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