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Grome
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 10:03 pm

Thank you for your opinion Prom!

I disagree with the timezone thing. As of now, there should not be a split. They have not even announced how they will split the servers and only then will we see if and how this community will split. Until then, no need to artificially split the community imo.

While you are right that a too deep forum is not needed at this point, we were realizing that. This is more like the forum layout for launch time.
It would probably go live earlier than that though. I think developing a new forum layout for between now and launch is not entirely necessary. It would probably only complicate things, since we would end up moving everything around twice.

So I'd say, while this is a BIG layout, it is not too complicated. It may look in the first post, because everything is unfolded but once it's in a veritable forum form it will be much more accessible and we will certainly start to see the benefits early.
It's in my opinion not that far from simple: Every forum has its purpose and it should end up being rather clear what goes where.

The bottom line is: Launch is only a couple of months from now, so it doesn't pay developing a very own forum layout for that time and this might just work out fine as posting is really starting to pick up in these times.

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Variable
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 10:16 pm

Grome wrote:
Thank you for your opinion Prom!

I disagree with the timezone thing. As of now, there should not be a split. They have not even announced how they will split the servers and only then will we see if and how this community will split. Until then, no need to artificially split the community imo.

While you are right that a too deep forum is not needed at this point, we were realizing that. This is more like the forum layout for launch time.
It would probably go live earlier than that though. I think developing a new forum layout for between now and launch is not entirely necessary. It would probably only complicate things, since we would end up moving everything around twice.

So I'd say, while this is a BIG layout, it is not too complicated. It may look in the first post, because everything is unfolded but once it's in a veritable forum form it will be much more accessible and we will certainly start to see the benefits early.
It's in my opinion not that far from simple: Every forum has its purpose and it should end up being rather clear what goes where.

The bottom line is: Launch is only a couple of months from now, so it doesn't pay developing a very own forum layout for that time and this might just work out fine as posting is really starting to pick up in these times.

Per the timezone thing: Doesn't the forum calculate your time difference for you once you enter your GMT difference? If I set up an event on the calander for my GMT -6 time, won't someone with a GMT +1 modifier see that event at the time relative to the timezone they chose? I could be wrong here, but that's my understanding of how it works.

Also, as to the forum breadth: It was also my understanding that it was being structured with what we can forseeably need for the community at launch time. In the mean time, threads we don't need would be locked or hidden. This way, the forum evolves with our needs but isn't a huge production. Am I on the same page here?
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 10:24 pm

Variable wrote:
Also, as to the forum breadth: It was also my understanding that it was being structured with what we can forseeably need for the community at launch time. In the mean time, threads we don't need would be locked or hidden. This way, the forum evolves with our needs but isn't a huge production. Am I on the same page here?
Yes, that's how I see it too.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 10:28 pm

Actually the forum could be created before launch, I'm sure the admins can set forum view to specific groups only.

So it could be invisible until 1 week before launch or when Open beta start, but it could have been created and "tested" well before that date by a few people.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 1:04 am

Starting the evening here because this will be fastest.

KDS - Prometeu wrote:
One thing that always helps to have in mind is the KISS principle. KISS- keep it simple stupid

Having a too deep forum too early might be more of hindrance than a help for this forming community!

So I would suggest a more simple forum tree that can expand in time when/if the need arises!

...

Grome, Variable, and Azarhal have already covered most of the basics. The only thing I would add is that we are trying to avoid having to split forums manually down the road. At 1000 posts in a week here already, this wouId be a very serious problem even by Open Beta.

I had definitely planned on opening up a discussion on how much of this we wanted live right now. Maybe now is the time to start talking about that...

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Aldemarran

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 1:23 am

Grome wrote:
...
"Character Stories":
Is this the forum that will be used to run RP stories on top of ingame RP as Ty described it? I like it (although maybe the name could be changed since the threads will not be about single characters... e.g. "Player Stories" or similarly),
Yes!
Grome wrote:
but I have one thought here: Will people have the need to do some forum RP separate from the game? Such as in another time period for instance. I don't know, so I have to ask, as it might be wanted. If so, I suggest to put these in the very same forum and call it differently then... e.g. "RP Stories" or similarly...
I can't think of a time when I saw people write fiction entirely separated from their in-game characters. Closest I saw was fiction about in-game character's children who didn't exist in-game, but that's still really just character fiction. Hence I tend to think that 2 forums is sufficient, one for Backgrounds and one for other Stories. But surely there are people with more RP experience than I who could comment on this?
Grome wrote:
"Other Fan Stories":
Is this for short-stories and the likes in the setting of the SW universe? If so, I think it fits in well in this "RP & Lore" header. Will we have as much of it though for us to require this forum on top of the "Art Display" Forum? (because it's basically just a specified area of that "Art") No problem with it, just asking if there will be enough of these short-stories floating around?
If what I just wrote is not what this is about, then what is it about?
I expect that we're going to see a lot of the art end up in the RP forums for character description purposes anyway. I don't expect that a lot of stories are going to land in an Art Forum without moderator help. I'd be happy with all non-Canon stories going under the RP header forum.


Grome wrote:
*** One more suggestion for a forum: "UI & Add-Ons" (It has not yet been confirmed but I would be surprised if they wouldn't allow it) ... to go into Game Discussion Forums I'd say.
I can add this one now, but I personally am willing to allow Add-On speculation to continue in General Game Discussion until launch and the creation of actual UI and Add-Ons.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 1:28 am

Regarding Forum Descriptions
I see a need for 2 types of Descriptions:
  • Outline Descriptions for the Welcome forum in outline form with 1 line descriptions.
  • Detailed Sticky Descriptions for the top of each forum giving some insight into the kinds of discussions we had here. These should help people with "Grey Area" thread topics figure out where to put their threads. They should be 1 to 2 paragraphs long.

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Aldemarran

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 5:11 am

First Editorial Pass on Outline Forum Descriptions


- First Header: "Welcome, Read Here First!";
-> Draft description: "This Outline, the R.I.G. charter and an opportunity to introduce oneself!"

-- First Header, First Sub: "Introductions"
--> Draft description: "Feel free to introduce yourself here."

- Second Header: "Game Discussion Forums";
-> Draft description: "All there is to discuss about Star Wars: The Old Republic."

-- Second Header, First Sub: "General Game Discussion"
--> Draft: "All discussion about SW:TOR that doesn't fit in any of the other forums."

-- Second Header, Second Sub: "Game Story Discussion"
--> Draft: "The place to discuss the story parts of the game. Spoiler alert!"

-- Second Header, Third Sub: "PvE General Discussion"
--> Draft: "The place for discussions and guides on PvE in the game."

-- Second Header, Fourth Sub: "PvP General Discussion"
--> Draft: "The place for discussions and guides on PvP in the game."

-- Second Header, Fifth Sub: "Crafting General Discussion"
--> Draft: "The place for discussions and guides on Crafting in the game."

-- Second Header, Sixth Sub: "Leveling General Discussion"
--> Draft: "The place for discussions and guides on Leveling in the game."

-- Second Header, Seventh Sub: "UI & Addons Discussion
--> Draft: "All discussion of UI & Addons in the game."

Question: How much discussion is there going to be on "Leveling" that won't go on in one of the class forums? Is it really worth a separate forum from the PvE (and/or PvP if they go that way) forum?

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Grome
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 9:06 am

Good. I agree with you on following matters: Character stories, Other Fan Stories, there being 2 descriptions for each forum (one-liner + sticky).

Regarding the UI & Add-On Discussion I agree as well: It should be hidden/closed until launch (or open beta).

One matter has extended itself to me: In the "Welcome & read here first" forum: What exactly would go in this header forum except the charter? If it is only that, would it be enough to have just a sticky with the charter and put the introduction part right in there?

Other than that, all the descriptions you posted are very fine! Do you plan on adding them to the overview on the first post?

As for the leveling discussion forum (and maybe the leveling events forum as well): I really don't know if this will be specifically needed. I can see how it might be, but I think we (at least I) can't determine that for sure due to lack of general information on that (we really don't know that much about leveling except BW said they want to make the way to the top as important as endgame).
I am going to go with yes however, for now. And as you mentioned in regard to another topic: It is always easier to merge forums than to split them.

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Aldemarran

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 1:52 pm

Grome wrote:
...One matter has extended itself to me: In the "Welcome & read here first" forum: What exactly would go in this header forum except the charter? If it is only that, would it be enough to have just a sticky with the charter and put the introduction part right in there?

Other than that, all the descriptions you posted are very fine! Do you plan on adding them to the overview on the first post?...

With a forum architecture this large my intent for the Welcome, Read Here First! forum is to contain the Charter, the Outline Description (to help people find their way around since they won't be able to see the sub-layers at first glance), and the Introductions forum. In short, this is to provide the bare essentials of understanding who and what The RiG forum is all about.

As to adding them, I probably will add them to the first post eventually. Tonight or tomorrow though I'm going to build a quotable post with the list structure in it to make it easier for everyone to comment and suggest edits as well as see what's left to write.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 8:46 pm

Grome wrote:
They have not even announced how they will split the servers and only then will we see if and how this community will split.

Ever since Bioware Mythic has dropped GoA, in May/June 2010, as provider for WAR in Europe they announced they are running their own server platform. That was most likely a move in preparation for SWTOR.

Also they announced German and French localisation.

They announced servers to be WoW size or bigger.

The above info leads to the conclusion that we will have at least US/EU split.

Yours,
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 9:04 pm

KDS - Prometeu wrote:
Ever since Bioware Mythic has dropped GoA, in May/June 2010, as provider for WAR in Europe they announced they are running their own server platform. That was most likely a move in preparation for SWTOR.

Also they announced German and French localisation.

They announced servers to be WoW size or bigger.

The above info leads to the conclusion that we will have at least US/EU split.

Yours,
Yes, definitely right, it is assumable. But nothing is sure and my point was more that we can't know yet how the community will split (or if).

So we shouldn't let that flow into the layout at this point in my opinion. Of course should a split be needed, the task would not be enormous either I think: you would simply want to split the server related forums in two (event forums, guild forums, trade forum - of which at least one will not even have been used).

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 9:27 pm

Grome wrote:

Yes, definitely right, it is assumable. But nothing is sure and my point was more that we can't know yet how the community will split (or if).

So we shouldn't let that flow into the layout at this point in my opinion. Of course should a split be needed, the task would not be enormous either I think: you would simply want to split the server related forums in two (event forums, guild forums, trade forum - of which at least one will not even have been used).

Planning servers and events with guilds/players from different timezones in same place might turn out into a mess Smile

I just voiced an opinion/concern here and I'll go along with whatever will be decided!

yours,

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 9:33 pm

KDS - Prometeu wrote:
Planning servers and events with guilds/players from different timezones in same place might turn out into a mess Smile

I just voiced an opinion/concern here and I'll go along with whatever will be decided!

yours,
Voice as many concerns as you have! It's always better to hear everyone out.

I don't see a problem here however, as we are far from planning anything involving specific persons or guilds. This would be a problem, as you said yourself. But we're not doing that ergo there is no problem so far. We're just building the hull, as it were.

Please tell me if I am misunderstanding you here.

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KDS - Prometeu



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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 9:36 pm

no misunderstanding Grome,

you are perfectly right that we do not need that split in this moment since we are far from launch with no actual eta. That will most likely be needed in the last 2-3 months prior to launch.

/cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 9:41 pm

Alright. As soon as we can make a decision on this topic we'll make sure to think of your advice. Or maybe you can remember us, I'm not so sure of my memory these days... Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 10:28 pm

KDS - Prometeu wrote:
Grome wrote:
They have not even announced how they will split the servers and only then will we see if and how this community will split.

Ever since Bioware Mythic has dropped GoA, in May/June 2010, as provider for WAR in Europe they announced they are running their own server platform. That was most likely a move in preparation for SWTOR.

Also they announced German and French localisation.

They announced servers to be WoW size or bigger.

The above info leads to the conclusion that we will have at least US/EU split.

Yours,

Considering that layout of the launcher page for SWTOR, the only server split is going to be by timezones and nothing else.

Localization doesn't have anything to do with servers either, it's client based. I know this because in Québec most people buy their games in French, but because of the timezone they all play on US EST servers with Americans.

As it was said a few time in this thread, BioWare doesn't seems to want to segregate their players like it happen when you licence the game in EU or the NA. The move for WAR actually tells me that players will have access to all the servers available, all centralized under EA management. It will be the player's choice to play in a specific timezone, but there is 24 hours in a day not just 5.



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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 10:42 pm

agreed Azarhal,

I do not think we will be version/client limited in server choice!

On the localisation issue while you are right on the Canadian nation the localisation is not really meant for them. The chances of a Canadian to understand English is like sky-high compared with that of a French/German to know ANY additional language Smile

I'm not saying the above to offend anyone is just my experience both RL and Ingame and I can speak both German and French to some extent - lol

/salute


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Grome
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 10:47 pm

Agreed, people living in Germany and France are usually not the best at foreign languages (logic consequence of both countries being so important) but I'd think they do speak English. It is the world language after all and taught in school all over the world. Though it's true that sometimes if you hear them speak it sounds more like... well.

Oh and if we're gonna discuss servers it is maybe better done in the appropriate thread? Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 04, 2010 12:39 am

To use this for yourself, select the "Quote" button on the post with the most recent edition of this and then delete the quote tags.

  • Welcome, Read Here First! = "The Forum Structure Outline, the R.I.G. charter and an opportunity to introduce yourself!"
    • Introduce Yourself! = "Feel free to introduce yourself here."

  • Game Discussion Forums = "All there is to discuss about Star Wars: The Old Republic."
    • General Game Discussion = "All discussion about SW:TOR that doesn't fit in any of the other forums."
    • Game Story Discussion = "The place to discuss the story parts of the game. Spoiler alert!"
    • PvE General Discussion = "The place for discussions and guides on PvE in the game."
    • PvP General Discussion = "The place for discussions and guides on PvP in the game."
    • Class Discussion = "The place for mixed class discussions with sub-forums for the details of individual classes."
      • Bounty Hunter
      • Imperial Agent
      • Sith Inquisitor
      • Sith Warrior
      • Jedi Consular
      • Jedi Knight
      • Smuggler
      • Trooper

    • Crafting Discussion = "The place for discussions and guides on Crafting in the game."
    • Leveling Discussion = "The place for discussions and guides on Leveling in the game."
    • UI & Addons Discussion = "All discussion of UI & Addons in the game."

  • Server Events Summary = "A summary listing of events. Please use the form provided. Sub-forums by event type for details."
    • RP Server Events = "The place for RP related event announcements, signups, and discussion."
    • PvE Server Events = "The place for PvE related event announcements, signups, and discussion."
    • PvP Server Events = "The place for PvP related event announcements, signups, and discussion."
    • Crafting Server Events = "The place for Crafting related event announcements, signups, and discussion."
    • Leveling Server Events = "The place for Leveling related event announcements, signups, and discussion."
    • Community Aid Events = "The place for event announcements, signups, and discussion for helping the Community."

  • Guild Forums = "A place for guild specific discussion with sub-forums for recruiting."
    • Guild Recruitment: Empire = "A place to introduce and recruit for your Imperial guild."
    • Guild Recruitment: Republic = "A place to introduce and recruit for your Republican guild. No Democrats allowed... JK!"
    • Guild Seeking = "A place to post what kind of guild you are looking for."

  • RP & Lore Forums = "For RP Help, Planning and Discussion, with sub-forums for RP and Lore"
    • Star Wars Lore Discussion = "For discussion of Lore"
    • Character Backgrounds = "Your character's background and biographical information."
    • Open RP = "A place to run open forum RP sessions."
    • Fan Stories = "A place for your character's continuing saga and other fan stories."

  • General Forums = "A place to discuss those things that don't belong elsewhere with sub-forums for Art, Off-Topic, and Other Games."
    • Art Display & Discussion = "A place to show off and appreciate art."
    • Off-Topic Discussion = "For discussion of things not related to SW:TOR."
    • Other Games Discussion = "For discussion of games other than SW:TOR"

  • Trade Forum = "For trading inside The RiG community. Yay, for Insider Trading!"

  • Aid & Assistance = "The place to look for help and discuss how to help the community."

  • Rigger's Open Discussion = "The place for open discussions relating directly to The RiG."
    • Rigger's Moderator Discussion (Restricted) = "A closed forum for The RiG Moderators Only."

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 04, 2010 12:43 am

Please note I tucked a story forum re-org into the previous post.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 04, 2010 12:56 am

Looks dynamite, Ald!
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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 04, 2010 4:58 pm

Looks very good, Ald! I agree with the name change in the RP header forum.

Change in yellow:

  • Welcome, Read Here First! = "The Forum Structure Outline, the R.I.G. charter and an opportunity to introduce yourself!"
    • Introduce Yourself! = "Feel free to introduce yourself here."

It's a very small change, just thought it might be better to use "yourself" in both cases Wink

Feel free to write them all descriptions, doing a good job there Wink

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Aldemarran

Aldemarran

Posts : 365
Join date : 2010-11-13
Location : Phoenix, AZ

Ingame Characters
Character Name: Agent Redacted
Class: Imperial Agent
Guild: Redacted

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 05, 2010 2:00 am

Ok, first pass should be written for all the Outline Descriptions.

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Grome
Massively Subtle
Grome

Posts : 1159
Join date : 2010-11-15
Age : 30
Location : Geneva, Switzerland

Ingame Characters
Character Name:
Class: Smuggler
Guild:

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 05, 2010 11:03 am

Thanks Ald! Good job!

We'll have to get back to the "Server Events Summary" matter with Selv, as to how we can make it work. It would be nice if that forum could be a "no reply" forum (links to the respective discussion will be in each thread).

Also, good call adding that Guild Discussion forum!


Suggested changes in yellow:
  • Server Event Forums = "A place to announce and discuss events."

  • RP & Lore Forums = "For RP, discussion thereof and Lore"

  • Aid & Assistance = "A place to look for help and discuss how to help the community."

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PostSubject: Re: Possible Forum Layout?   Possible Forum Layout? - Page 4 I_icon_minitime

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