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Velaxi
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Velaxi

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PostSubject: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 9:38 pm

I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in Suggestions, so I'm sure it'll get moved if I chose poorly. :p

I'm going to be starting a guild once SW:toR comes out - or before, perhaps.
(I'm in the process of custom-skinning a site/phpBB3, and it's a long process.)

I've noticed, though, that a goodly number of the members here are also guilded or guild leaders.
This is a good thing - a large proportion of leaders, that is. Therefore we can & will recruit from outside the R.i.G. community, and thereby grow our numbers.

So I thought... rather than having a guild recruitment forum (this forum), would it not make more sense to have a Guild Registry?
As opposed to Recruitment Threads (which, while some of them are creative, they seem to tend towards newspaper-sized advertisements and can be a bit overwhelming); instead a clean, clear format for member-guilds to post using a predefined format (and color scheme?)

A predefined format would mean that all information would be uniform, and people who were actually looking for a guild (there seems to be more recruiting than recruits here) would easily be able to locate information.
Other considerations could be to disallow replies, so as to eliminate "bumping", and querants would need to either PM the OP or go to the guild website directly. AFAIK you should also be able to sort an individual forum by name rather than posting date, which again would eliminate a need for bumping or creating a thread with a master list.

IDK, I'm just thinking with my fingers.

One thing I did just think to point out was that the motivation for this post was not because I'm (once again) planning to be a GM and want to level the playing field -- on the contrary, before I made this decision, I was browsing these threads and pretty much wasn't liking what I was seeing format-wise (no insult intended to those posters or their creativity, just trying to state it objectively). This forum, it seemed to me, is an open invitation to guilds who are trying to recruit -- from anywhere -- to join just to post here, even if they don't believe in what R.i.G. stands for.
Know-wut-I-mean?

TL;DR
So my thought was that by minimizing the "loud recruiting posts" and instead making a member-guild registry, we're simply giving the people who join R.i.G. a place to shop for a guild, rather than giving guilds a place to shop for members.

These are not the droids you're looking for.
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Schwendo

Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 10:08 pm

Our Guild page is basically what you are talking about. Then again, we are not recuiting very much. We have a solid guild ATM. But, we do take in people with that special "Crazy" quality Wink. I think both a "Guild Registry", as well as a, "Hey, join our guild, its neat" page would supply just what you are looking for Vel'

Comments anyone?

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er, this seems like the place to post this... Rigbycrazies2
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Ty-Odi
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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 10:16 pm

Well, this section is kind of an 'Introduce your guild' section anyhow, not a recruitment center Smile

It may do that for some of the guilds, and great if it does Smile But it also allows other guilds to know other guilds as well. I think the way it is set up presently is pretty multifunctional without being a problem for either side of the fence?

If you guys want this broken up somewhat thats no problem at all, I just and this is merely personal I don't see much point in changing this overly, unless you guys can see any real benefit from doing so that i am missing?

(I could well be, lol)

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Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 10:20 pm

I think the main thing is,

Ty, you can keep this thread the way it is. But, maybe, start a "Guild Roster / type" thread to be a brief overview of each guild...Very brief. Almost like a "running roster" of RiG guilds. Is that the "jist" of what you are talking about Vel?

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er, this seems like the place to post this... Rigbycrazies2
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Velaxi
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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 10:25 pm

In part yes, it is; but if it's in a thread then *someone* has to maintain it.
(i.e. it takes time and effort, and the leaders here are also leaders elsewhere)

Also, while I understand perfectly well that recruitment threads have their place, I am personally of the opinion that doing it here ... just seemed somewhat against the principles of the R.i.G.

Part of "respect" is not trying to 'ninja' other guilds' members...
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Selven
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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 10:29 pm

Schwendo wrote:
I think the main thing is,

Ty, you can keep this thread the way it is. But, maybe, start a "Guild Roster / type" thread to be a brief overview of each guild...Very brief. Almost like a "running roster" of RiG guilds. Is that the "jist" of what you are talking about Vel?

We're discussing the layout in this thread so maybe try keeping the discussion going there? Just an idea Smile

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Ty-Odi
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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 10:31 pm

Velaxi wrote:
In part yes, it is; but if it's in a thread then *someone* has to maintain it.
(i.e. it takes time and effort, and the leaders here are also leaders elsewhere)

Also, while I understand perfectly well that recruitment threads have their place, I am personally of the opinion that doing it here ... just seemed somewhat against the principles of the R.i.G.

Part of "respect" is not trying to 'ninja' other guilds' members...

Oooh I concur in that mate, I hope no one tries to do that anyhow?

But there are a number of people on here who are unguilded still, Yours truly is a prime example. I have no idea what I am gonna do guild wise yet? In a bizarre way i feel like I am already a member of a number of them? lol.

I don't see too many of the threads on here from the guilds as being overly recruitment driven anyhow? But yeah, for people like me who are undecided it is a nice thing to be able to see more about them, and to know some of its members and so on.

Smile

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Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 10:31 pm

Ah,

Well, why don't we start up our own thread of just, "Guild / Type / Allegiance / Leader(s)"...Either you, or I, can maintain the initial post. That way, we're constantly updating the Guild roster...This thread could then be just an "advertisement page", for guilds to recruit.

I, for one, don't mind people trying to get good "non guilded" players into their guilds. Now, if someones trying to "hork" other guilds members...thats a horse of an entirely different color. (excuse the "Wizard of Oz" reference)

Whatcha think, Vel, Ty, Selv'?

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er, this seems like the place to post this... Rigbycrazies2
CHRIS SCHWEN / GUILD CO-LEADER- CRAZIES of KORRIBAN <-CoK-> (dark) CRAZIES of the REPUBLIC <-CoR-> (light)
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Velaxi
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Velaxi

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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 10:35 pm

Ty-Odi wrote:
Velaxi wrote:
Part of "respect" is not trying to 'ninja' other guilds' members...
But there are a number of people on here who are unguilded still, Yours truly is a prime example.
Velaxi wrote:
... member-guild registry, we're simply giving the people who join R.i.G. a place to shop for a guild, rather than giving guilds a place to shop for members.
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Velaxi
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Velaxi

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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 10:38 pm

Schwendo wrote:
Ah,

Well, why don't we start up our own thread of just, "Guild / Type / Allegiance / Leader(s)"...Either you, or I, can maintain the initial post. That way, we're constantly updating the Guild roster...This thread could then be just an "advertisement page", for guilds to recruit.

I, for one, don't mind people trying to get good "non guilded" players into their guilds. Now, if someones trying to "hork" other guilds members...thats a horse of an entirely different color. (excuse the "Wizard of Oz" reference)

Whatcha think, Vel, Ty, Selv'?
Sorry for replying after replying, but you post fast. Razz

Well, as I said earlier -- and others are more than welcome to disagree with me -- IMO "active recruitment threads" are just that -> people trying to grab members out of the population be they guilded or otherwise. The result of which - if not directly "hork"?ing then at least perceived as such.

IDK, I'm probably going over the top on a petty issue, but then, what good is an opinion if you can't annoy someone with it? lmao
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Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 02, 2010 10:44 pm

Maybe a lil' bit Vel',

I have'nt seen it in RiG from anyone actually trying to steal other guilds members at all. Like Ty said, there's a ton of unguilded RiGers out there. Its a novel idea for the to be able to "browse" to see just what each guild is all about. (And, believe me, they are very diverse) That way, they can pick and choose a guild to better suit their gameplay. Or, not to pick at all. Thats the Demoratic-Respect we are striving for in RiG..Wink

Be back in a bit, the son's fussy Sad /hi5 Vel,Ty,Selv'

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er, this seems like the place to post this... Rigbycrazies2
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Darka

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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 3:32 am

We see it more as a Guild Presentation then recruitment, members are not hard to come by for us, and being active for a few years now has been very beneficial
I see ourselves as registered on this project, after all we specifically entered a section about Community and why we were here when we signed up ( being the first guild to do so too i might add)
we posted more because we wanted to be part of this, rather then another stop in a recruitment spam train across the galaxy
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Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 4:04 am

He's an idea Dark, Vel, Ty, Selv,

Why don't we take that "group" icon up on the top row thats not being used at all. Well, it has Selv' in it I think. Could we just put down all the active RiG Guilds in there? You all could add a brief summary of the guild..its leader, and a link to their site (if any exists). On the "Guild" topic it's "business as usual" as it has been since the beginning...

Whatcha think??

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er, this seems like the place to post this... Rigbycrazies2
CHRIS SCHWEN / GUILD CO-LEADER- CRAZIES of KORRIBAN <-CoK-> (dark) CRAZIES of the REPUBLIC <-CoR-> (light)
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Selven
The Old Bat
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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 4:29 am

Schwendo wrote:
He's an idea Dark, Vel, Ty, Selv,

Why don't we take that "group" icon up on the top row thats not being used at all. Well, it has Selv' in it I think. Could we just put down all the active RiG Guilds in there? You all could add a brief summary of the guild..its leader, and a link to their site (if any exists). On the "Guild" topic it's "business as usual" as it has been since the beginning...

Whatcha think??

That's not a bad idea Smile Let me just grab a couple hours of sleep and I'll look into it.

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Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 4:33 am

No rush at all Selv',

We have 5+ months til launch Wink...

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er, this seems like the place to post this... Rigbycrazies2
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Velaxi
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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 6:05 am

Darka wrote:
We see it more as a Guild Presentation then recruitment, members are not hard to come by for us, and being active for a few years now has been very beneficial
I see ourselves as registered on this project, after all we specifically entered a section about Community and why we were here when we signed up ( being the first guild to do so too i might add)
we posted more because we wanted to be part of this, rather then another stop in a recruitment spam train across the galaxy
Darka, I didn't want to come off as accusing specifically anyone - and certainly not the founders and helpers of the RiG - of making this a recruiting pit... at this point in time. I apologize if it seemed that way.

My concern was more logistic, looking to the immediate and distant future than the present.

But, as I stated in the previous post in this thread - I'm overstating a very small issue, so don't stress about it. Smile

In any case, Guild Support for the R.i.G. is a good thing, and I certainly would not want to discourage that in any way.
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Darka

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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 9:20 am

understood but felt it was good to express a stand point from our guild Smile
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Godric_Barbarosa

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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 2:31 pm

Velaxi wrote:
So my thought was that by minimizing the "loud recruiting posts" and instead making a member-guild registry, we're simply giving the people who join R.i.G. a place to shop for a guild, rather than giving guilds a place to shop for members.

I thought that was the ides behind this thread. You are right that it would need to be better maintained and more informative. Not only whether their focus is PvE, PvP, or RP but how heavily invested in each are they. For example guild XXX may be light RP, casual PvP and hardcore Raiding. Information like a synopsis of an RP guilds back-story and the experience level of guild leaders could be nice too, but those might be better left to there actual recruiting pages.
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Aamaretto



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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 03, 2010 11:53 pm

HAI GAIS!

My name is Aamaretto and I'm new here ^.^ But why am I here? Well, I will go ahead and tell you right now. I'm Velaxi's RL (new) wife. He's been telling me about this community for awhile now, and I'm finally registering just now >.> I always intended to, but I try not to get too excited about games that haven't even set a release date yet, since I get as impatient as a kid waiting for Christmas. But that's for an intro thread ...

I am in THIS thread because he was telling me that he may have offended some of you, and I decided to see what ruckus he caused. I told him that I didn't think that he offended people, but that a) I didn't agree with him at first and then b) when he explained it more to me, I did get his points. So I'm here to translate. Maybe it's not necessary but anyway ... (Also, these are MY opinions based on HIS explanation, so don't go blaming him if you don't agree with me Razz)

Within any community, there will be conflict, but within a community founded on being the antithesis of typical kid-gamer attitudes, you'll want to minimize the impact the conflict causes. To minimize the impact, you need to think of how you're going to structure your community (which I understand is taking place in another thread about the Senate). Although we would all like to believe in the goodness of our common man and the possibility for world peace, we can't be naive. As one of my friends' email signatures says, "Trust in God, but lock your car."

The fact is that the definition of "respect" varies from person to person. What I consider the bounds of respectful behavior may be outright rudeness to someone else, and vice versa, dependent on situations, people involved, even the type of day we were all having before logging into the game. If you want to found a community on an ideal or principle like "respect," you as community leaders need to define what it is clearly and succinctly.

With that in mind, you'll need to determine how you want to allow people to recruit (among many, many other things). The reality is that people will get disgruntled with Guild X and go join Guild Y. If Guild X and Guild Y are both a part of RIG, then feathers will get ruffled.

Possibilities range from: You can put up no controls - that is, allow whatever guild recruitment people want. You can put up some controls - that is, moderate/restrict certain phraseology in guild recruitment. Or you can put up absolute controls - that is, have guilds fill out a form and leave the "free form" guild recruitment threads for outside sources, like the official TOR websites.

Velaxi seems to be advocating the last, which has its merits for a community like this. If you create a list for your guild-shopping consumers, your community does not look like it's sponsoring possibly shady behavior (like ninja-ing other guilds' members). It's a list of attributes that people can pick from - am I looking for a pvp guild or a raiding guild with these hours or ... whatever. Then the consumer decides. If you allow guilds to post in here unrestricted, you will have the potential for nefarious guild-recruiting means. That's not to say that all free-form guild recruitment threads are nefarious, or even most. It just means there is that potential.

This community should seriously consider how it will guard itself. In my view, the more commited you are to an ideal, the more vigilant you must guard it to see it become a beautiful reality. I have seen many, many guilds "based on respect" degenerate into hatred and anger towards one another because one person's idea of tolerable behavior was much different than another. Because people were trying to be respectful, no one stood up to the offender.

Trust in God, but lock your car.
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Kai-Sun
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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 04, 2010 2:36 am

Aamaretto wrote:


Trust in God, but lock your car.

I own a Jeep, I keep the doors off....should I still lock it? Smile

Welcome!! It's awesome to see you on here! Congratulations again to both of you!

You're also right about being serious about safeguarding ourselves, but I think if we all remain vigilant and look out for each other we can maintain a wonderful atmosphere and keep the idea alive.
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Godric_Barbarosa

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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 04, 2010 10:02 pm

Congratulation to you both, Aamaretto and Velaxi. I shouldn't speak for everyone but I think we all here are pretty thick skinned and I can't imagine any one was truly offended. I am naive on this, but I have a hard time seeing how posting a guild message here brings up the possibility of ninja-ing members. Now if guild 's started PMing people already in guilds asking them to switch that would obviously cross the line. But as I said I tend to be naive on such matters.
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Grome
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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 04, 2010 10:18 pm

As long as they are not offering free cookies to new members in their "recruitement" threads they're probably not gonna be ninja'ing Smile

However I do think a clearly arranged overview model would be nice to have on top of that, to make an easier search possible. And if you could ACTUALLY use a search it would be amazing. Such as "show all guilds that do RP", hide the others in that search.

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Velaxi
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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 05, 2010 6:29 am

Grome wrote:
As long as they are not offering free cookies to new members in their "recruitement" threads they're probably not gonna be ninja'ing Smile

However I do think a clearly arranged overview model would be nice to have on top of that, to make an easier search possible. And if you could ACTUALLY use a search it would be amazing. Such as "show all guilds that do RP", hide the others in that search.
Interestingly enough, PHP/SQL queries can easily be built to handle that kind of request, and these forums are built on those engines.
Funny how it's not really viable in the front end... :s
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Schwendo

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Location : St.Louis, USA

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Character Name: Quarashi Wahr-Schwen
Class: Sith Inquisitor
Guild: Crazies of Korriban

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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 06, 2010 5:02 am

Welcome Velaxi's wifey "Aamaretto"! woohoo!

Also, well put. You hit the nail on the head. I think this will never be a "Utopia", but, if we set the "do the right thing" bar high enough, good things will come of this. Even if we don't reach the lofty goal, getting close to it would be a victory in itself. Humans are not perfect beings, some far from it. But, the people i've interacted with in here really seem to "get it". And, that makes me very optimistic.

Sorry if I got serious...thats really not me at all. Games are for having fun. And, I plan on making sure we ALL have a blast in TOR! (Tell em' how serious I am Cold'!!) hehe.

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er, this seems like the place to post this... Rigbycrazies2
CHRIS SCHWEN / GUILD CO-LEADER- CRAZIES of KORRIBAN <-CoK-> (dark) CRAZIES of the REPUBLIC <-CoR-> (light)
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PostSubject: Re: er, this seems like the place to post this...   er, this seems like the place to post this... I_icon_minitime

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