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Schwendo

Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 20, 2010 3:42 am

I think that is the best "Plan B" option, Sands...

Just figure out a way for Riddle to make a new SWTOR account. In reality, its not like he's actually playing TOR and the account got banned. I'd continue to try and resolve it through channels (RiG included), but Cold's idea is the most viable for Riddle to be back to "business as usual" in the TOR forums. I would have him not let anyone know that he's from a previously banned account in SWTOR, though...

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Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 Rigbycrazies2
CHRIS SCHWEN / GUILD CO-LEADER- CRAZIES of KORRIBAN <-CoK-> (dark) CRAZIES of the REPUBLIC <-CoR-> (light)
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SandsS

SandsS

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 20, 2010 6:20 am

I'm working on getting Riddle to swing by here and say a few things, but it's holidays and everyone's busy.

Part of my concern is the principal of the thing. Now that Riddle's banned, he can't show his face in any identifiable way on the SWTOR forums? Yeah, that works great for guild recruiting and community participation on the part a group aiming to be one of the top pushing-content Republic PvE guilds. ._.;

I hear you, guys. But the "practical" solution is not the "right" solution.

--

Edit: PM from new guild community manager does indeed use the "we can't talk about other users' bans with you" shield. HOWEVER, also confirms that email is the proper way to contact the Community Team. And that the user in question should be emailing them directly. Which he has. For weeks.

So! I will be working on figuring out the proper way to proceed.

DB instructs me to remember that this is a very large community to moderate. This I understand.

--

Fellow RiG'ers I has question: how long is reasonable for a wait? :d
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SandsS

SandsS

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 20, 2010 6:41 am

And actually I just had a brainstorm!

It's against BW policy to talk about bans to other users. We have to work within that. So, I'm thinking maybe we push for an automated way for the banned to ask for an appeal directly in the forum UI?

This kind of thing would, one, free up the BWA Community Team from answering 'banned' email in the general account. They could have it go somewhere else, auto-sorted by issue (the help tickets already do this, right, but usually without response/contact that I've seen).

Two, it would allow BW:A to update "appeals" status in a quick and automated fashion, and to communicate quickly to the users involved WITHOUT needing to compose PMs. I.e. 'received,' 'pending,' 'approved,' 'denied.' There might still be just as much of a wait as there is now ... but it would kinda make me feel better, yeah? Although I am somewhat surprised to be defending bureaucracy, I can understand BW's problem with managing this massive community.

Would the RiG be willing to support and talk this up a bit in the BW forum suggestion box? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? :d

I see this as a potential way to address community concerns, not just individual ones. For now, all I think Riddle can do is keep emailing them and hoping for a response... eventually.
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Dresgar

Dresgar

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 20, 2010 6:44 am

SandsS wrote:
Fellow RiG'ers I has question: how long is reasonable for a wait? :d
As long as you are willing to wait =/
I find it irritating that your friend has not got any reply at all, if it were me I would not mind getting a big NO but at least they took the time to say it. It would be a great disrespect if he does not get any answer.

Personally I would do what Schwendo has suggested, create a new account while still trying to get the ban lifted from the original account.

SandsS wrote:
Would the RiG be willing to support and talk this up a bit in the BW forum suggestion box? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? :d

I see this as a potential way to address community concerns, not just individual ones. For now, all I think Riddle can do is keep emailing them and hoping for a response... eventually.

I do not know if the rest of our community would support the initiative, but I will, not only its a good idea but it should also help your friend. Go for it and create a thread on the forums.
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SandsS

SandsS

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 20, 2010 7:16 am

Dresgar wrote:
I do not know if the rest of our community would support the initiative, but I will, not only its a good idea but it should also help your friend. Go for it and create a thread on the forums.

Haha. Thanks. I think I'm going to create another thread on THESE forums first, though. I'd like some RiG community input. Guess it's back to general forums ... and then hopefully I can change this thread title to reflect the fact that the other issue is 'somewhat' more important.

DB basically told me 'you're nice, and I understand you're concerned, but we really can't talk to other users about bans." Which is good of him to say ... because then at least I KNOW that me and the RiG emailing BW isn't the best idea. XD So he gets props for that.
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Coldhart

Coldhart

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 20, 2010 7:29 am

Yeah, and actually just thought of this but in the long run, if we would have all sent mails, it may have aggrivated them enough to start watching our character names on the boards a little closer just waiting for an infraction.
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Godric_Barbarosa

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 20, 2010 1:26 pm

SandsS wrote:
And actually I just had a brainstorm!

It's against BW policy to talk about bans to other users. We have to work within that. So, I'm thinking maybe we push for an automated way for the banned to ask for an appeal directly in the forum UI?

This kind of thing would, one, free up the BWA Community Team from answering 'banned' email in the general account. They could have it go somewhere else, auto-sorted by issue (the help tickets already do this, right, but usually without response/contact that I've seen).

Two, it would allow BW:A to update "appeals" status in a quick and automated fashion, and to communicate quickly to the users involved WITHOUT needing to compose PMs. I.e. 'received,' 'pending,' 'approved,' 'denied.' There might still be just as much of a wait as there is now ... but it would kinda make me feel better, yeah? Although I am somewhat surprised to be defending bureaucracy, I can understand BW's problem with managing this massive community.

Would the RiG be willing to support and talk this up a bit in the BW forum suggestion box? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? :d

I see this as a potential way to address community concerns, not just individual ones. For now, all I think Riddle can do is keep emailing them and hoping for a response... eventually.

Sandss, I would definitely support this idea. If I see the thread in the suggestion box I will respond.

If the community team has had the opportunity team has had the opportunity to reply to you on this I would have to image they have contacted Riddle and I would be curious on what they had to say, but I understand that 'tis the season and he may be a bit busy to discuss that with us directly.

I hate to see anyone get a permaban especially for an of-color remark. I know I have a reputation for making such remarks, although I'm more likely to do it face to face than over the interwebs.
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Ty-Odi
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Ty-Odi

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 20, 2010 3:02 pm

You have my Axe sandsS Smile

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Coldhart

Coldhart

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 20, 2010 3:34 pm

Yep, I'll respond as well...just let us know when you do it cuz I don't really check a lot on the SWTOR forums.
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Godric_Barbarosa

Godric_Barbarosa

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 20, 2010 4:12 pm

Coldhart wrote:
Yep, I'll respond as well...just let us know when you do it cuz I don't really check a lot on the SWTOR forums.

Aye, it's probably best to link the thread here.
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Schwendo

Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 20, 2010 4:46 pm

And my "Bow" Sands!

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Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 Rigbycrazies2
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Grome
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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 20, 2010 6:52 pm

And my "magic wang". I mean, WAND! Wand..! Dammit.

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Yunie

Yunie

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 21, 2010 12:08 am

I usually disagree with people whining about moderation as, excluding some particular cases; I think Bioware generally does a good job with moderation. However, perma-banning an account for such a comment is... absolutely stupid and unfair. I don't even know how that was considered offensive in the first place, Yes of course there's sexual innuendo hidden on it, but it's not like he was actually insulting females, nor (hopefully!) saying something that wasn't true. I've seen WAY worse posts around (SGRA thread is a great example) and people generally just get a warning or an infraction. Eventually a temporary ban if they have accumulated infraction points.

Count me in in whatever you decide to do SandsS.
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Coldhart

Coldhart

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 21, 2010 1:42 am

Grome wrote:
And my "magic wang". I mean, WAND! Wand..! Dammit.

OMG! That's sexual harassment! BAAAAAaaaaaaaannnnnnnn hiiiiiiiiimmmmm............!
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Schwendo

Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 21, 2010 2:01 am

Yeah! No more "Wang Chung'n" there Mongo..or you'll be in "cookie timeout" Wink

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Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 Rigbycrazies2
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Mongo

Mongo

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 21, 2010 3:22 am

Schwendo wrote:
Yeah! No more "Wang Chung'n" there Mongo..or you'll be in "cookie timeout" Wink
But..but....but I heard everybody wants to wang chung tonight?
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Selven
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Selven

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 22, 2010 8:17 am

I can't believe they banned him for that using the "sexual harrasment" claim. Firstly, it was a very innocent joke. Secondly, he never aimed it at anyone. All females should feel harrased? Here's another female saying a big NO. I read your quote a second time and I can't wrap my head around it. It seems like there's gotta be more to the story. And we'll never know.

I'll support your post in the suggestion box.

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SandsS

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PostSubject: Re: Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend   Request for RiG Community Action on Behalf of a Friend - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 22, 2010 7:43 pm

Update for RiG'ers:

I've been in contact with DB. I got an answer to my email to bwacommunitysupport today, too. Riddle still hasn't heard anything (and I'd have him here, too, but he's on Christmas Holiday with his folks). I'm hoping I'll have more positive news for you guys in a week or two.

If not, I'll have to re-evaluate what can be done -- both by me, personally, and by the RiG. So I'll need all the brainstorming I can get.

What bothers me about this is that not only did I really have to dig on the forums for the infraction policy, but there's no real protection in place if someone on the other end chooses to break or misuse that policy. You as a community member and/or potential customer would have literally no rights and no recourse -- save email -- if you were hit with an improper ban. And if you were an individual complaining alone ... it'd be really easy to ignore you.

So on the one hand, even if your friends or other community members wanted to help you, BW policy means BW people don't have to talk to them -- because it's someone else's infraction.

Mind you, BW policy is great when it's functioning. Most of the time, it is! And the mods by and large do a good job monitoring this large community.

But if it goes wrong ... you are just totally out of luck. BW Community Team is then constrained by their policy, and we're left without answers to a really important question: how did this happen? How can we keep it from happening again?

--

Edit: Update part two.

DB claims system is "working as intended." Which means Riddle must have seriously hacked someone off. The response to me was "thank you for your concern, we can't talk about another user's bans." So. I'm still hoping Riddle will get his own version of a response ... with luck, the REAL decision is still pending. Apparently there is no way to get perma'd without accumulating fifteen 'infraction points.'

Unfortunately I can't comment on what more or less severe infractions are. Somehow, Riddle must have gotten those fifteen points instantaneously and straight bypassed the other stages -- which is what one moderator vaguely hinted at. With luck, he'll get more of an explanation than "you were banned for sexual harrassment, have a nice day."

I'm probably not the only one who believes this is ah ... unjust. But it does feel a bit lonely now and again.

The words "no further recourse" did not sound entirely comforting. >_>;
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