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 R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?

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Grome
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PostSubject: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 12:25 am

edit: WARNING, if you will, that this opening post does possibly not reflect best what I am going for. Take it with a grain of salt and read up at the end what I was hoping to get across, until I find time to edit this.

Recently I have been thinking that we may need to define our project's direction(s) and long-term goals more clearly. Of course, at this point, they are not very clear yet. We have a very advanced idea on our hands but essentially we don't really know where this is going or supposed to go. That's why I feel we may want to discuss them a bit.

Blur put some very good points out there in the introduction forums (guild and individual), while not directly related to this, it made me come up with some points and it made me think of some things.

While we already knew about the issue of choosing a server for the community, I have now come to think of two different ways to commit oneself to "RiG". We should be aware of the two and not restrict to just one way. At least if we want the things that come with each way.

Those two ways of commitments are of a different level. Remember that I am not saying in which direction we should head quite yet, as this is only what I have objectively picked up.

> Committing to the idea ... accepting the charter, feeling the same way about respectful behavior in MMOs.

> Committing to the people ... wanting to play with the people the community has gathered, and being ready to sacrifice things on an individual/guild level to be able to do this.

Notice that in committing to the people, you also commit to the idea.
N°2 is what most of us have come to adapt as their way of commitment at this point.

With a growing community and the idea being spread, there will also most likely be more conflicting interests within the community. N°2 will not be an option for everyone, especially whole guilds and even alliances of guilds.

We would not want to exclude them from RiG just because of this. As a matter of fact it is very clear that everyone seems to wish there was a perfect way for everyone to be able to end up on one server. If we stick to this idea to much we will end up excluding people and groups of people.

So, sadly, it will very likely not be a possible long-term goal to have everyone who wants to "commit to the idea" also be able to "commit to the people", as we can't expect everyone who backs the project to make the commitment needed for this. This is especially true for large groups (e.g. guilds).

Thus, while I am suggesting to take a step away from the "one server" thinking, I want to point out that I can see the role of this forum and hence of its community going in the direction to facilitate the wish of people who fall into category n°1 to play with like-minded people. Currently we're mostly taking into account category n°2. (the question will be: do you feel the same way?)

Does this mean we should expand as much as possible at any cost? No. Not even the most ambitious entrepreneur will open branches in ten different countries right off the bat.
Does this mean we should be ambitious as to getting everyone who wants to be a part of this under one "roof" (not one server)? Yes. While you do not start with ten branches you may want to aim that high right from the start (not suggesting we should aim for ten RiG servers - know when the metaphor ends).

Let me quote at this point which fits in quite well:
Aldemarran wrote:
To be entirely honest we're not building rules for people to live by here. We're facilitating a community. Take that and add in that I expect this community to be fairly large before launch day. I expect we will exist on a couple of servers to accommodate the varied interests of the community. Even if we settle on only one server to start I would expect us to branch out as we (and the number of interests in the community) grow.

While I'm in this thread, let me propose that as we get nearer to launch, we might want to at least propose a "main server, [most popular type]" with several "secondary servers, [if you just have to have a different type".

* I believe it would be best to expand our yet undescribed goals and open the door to both ways of commitment. We need a vision; that vision could be: facilitate the coming together of people who want to play in an environment of mutual respect.

Where do we start exactly? That's what we need to figure out, but it would be best to keep it as small as possible at the start, without restricting the different interests too much. It should be more than one server, yet less than five.
We will have a better understanding once server infrastructure is announced.
There will likely be a server of the majority, as Ald said. It is no reason to dismiss everything else; if we want to live up to the vision I defined (for myself) before, we have to expand our horizon a bit and begin to take the direction of our choice.

Please post away.
The major point of this thread is to determine our short and long-term goals at least to a certain degree and the direction we want to commit and stay true to.

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Last edited by Grome on Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:33 am; edited 4 times in total
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Coldhart

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 12:53 am

Well Grome, it sounds like from what you say, that most of the conflict lies in where or what server we actually go to. This would depend on exactly how the servers are set up and how the PvP is set up in-game.

If PvP is going to be set up like WoW did it (where one could run battle grounds and flag PvP at any time/any place) then everyone could probably agree on going to a PvE server. If you wish to get the feel of being on a PvP server, simply always run around flagged.

As far as RP...it seems to me that RP can be done on any server (The actual RP server for other MMO's were created to merely let everyone know there is a lot of people who RP here). Which leads me to say that RP can be done just as well on a regualer PvE server.

With these two ideas in place IMHO there is no real reason not to go to a PvE server at launch...everyone gets what they want...people who enjoy PvE and don't want to be flagged PvP all the time will have it the way they like it, peopl who want to be flagged all the time can stay flagged all the time, and people who RP can RP just as well.

First limiting it to getting us all on one server would make the rest a little easier by allowing us to all be in one place or on one server. Of course this is dependant on if we'll be able to flag PvP at any time no matter where we're at. We'll know this, I'm sure as we get closer to launch.

As for the commitments...

Personaly I feel that everyone here on R.I.G. has commited to the charterby joining us and feel the same as we do and share our beliefs about the community.

As for commiting to the people, I think honestly that we'll do an awesome job once the game launches (especially if we are all on the same server). We'll be orginizing events here on R.I.G. Not just our PvP battles but PvE content as well...Raids, questing, crafting with our flee market that we can set up once every couple weeks.

Something that can help us all out further is if TOR actually has an in-game alliance chat like some MMO's do. If this is the case we can all be alliance guilds and everyone guild member has a way to talk with each other to just say hey or ask for help or to see if anyone just wants to goof off and go do something. This would be a very helpful in-game tool and would be one more reason for us all to get on the same server.

TBH, joining a PvE server is the only way I see to get it all with PvE, PvP and RP and of course allowing all of us to actually be on one server then.

We also have to wait and see if they're going to allow cross continent server play...meaning if you live in UK and buy the UK game, can you play on a US server? If yes then all our problems are solved. If not then the only option would be to pick a US or UK server
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azarhal

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 1:06 am

wall-o-text! That I actually read. O_o

"Conflicts" will be unavoidable, not everybody is as self-sacrificing as Selven. Wink

In fact, I would say that a lot of people in favor of a community based on mutual respect aren't ready to commit to such a community. Lots of people are way to used to "live" among their small group of regular players and they don't want to "sacrifice" anything of this "for the community".

Short term goals: making a good platform to organize the community (we will need it when we need to decide where we play)

Long term: Facilitating access to the community and it "creations", I guess. Kind of harder to ping down before playing the game, because a lot of things are dependent on what the game offer us.

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Godric_Barbarosa

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 1:35 am

Coldhart wrote:
Well Grome, it sounds like from what you say, that most of the conflict lies in where or what server we actually go to. This would depend on exactly how the servers are set up and how the PvP is set up in-game.

If PvP is going to be set up like WoW did it (where one could run battle grounds and flag PvP at any time/any place) then everyone could probably agree on going to a PvE server. If you wish to get the feel of being on a PvP server, simply always run around flagged.

As far as RP...it seems to me that RP can be done on any server (The actual RP server for other MMO's were created to merely let everyone know there is a lot of people who RP here). Which leads me to say that RP can be done just as well on a regualer PvE server.

With the assumption the server rulesets are like WoW I agree with PvE server. However, again assuming the WoW server rulesets where there is no penalty for not RPing on an RP server, I would be inclined to go with a RP-PvE server. As Iyou all have probably seen me say in a couple of other threads, I find the community to be a lot more mature on RP servers.

In the end this is making a big assumption and I feel we should wait for more info from Bioware on servers before fracturing over this issue.
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 1:37 am

I'm watching this with interest, and waiting to see what a guild interested in PvP and not just any old PvP, but WORLD PvP would make of it...
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 2:20 am

First off, thank you for articulating this, Grome! You've captured the two viewpoints quite well. And in so doing you've made me realize that I've been making the assumption that we would focus on committing to the idea first, then wherever possible we would commit to the people. At this juncture perhaps it would be appropriate to explain why I've made that assumption.

At the foundation, I do not believe we can include everyone who commits to the idea, no matter how many servers we successfully occupy. There will always be family members outside of the RiG. There will always be people who come to The RiG late and are setup on other servers.

As I have stated elsewhere I do not see the idea of respect as being exclusionary. What kind of respect would we have for others if we set ourselves up as elitists who dictate what server you play on? If we say we have no room for you because you aren't playing on "our" server?

TL;DR
I see respect as being inclusive because to have Respect in Gaming is to respect all gamers willing to offer respect in return. At least by my working understanding of the idea.

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Grome
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 3:13 am

Cold:
Personally, I would say you are right and I would very much prefer for us all to end up on one single server. And for that case, either PvE or RP-PvE seems like the best compromise server, if we assume WoW server rulesets.
Compromise however is the point that I think we will have to really look at. The compromise for a PvP player to play on a PvE server may not seem very important to you, but it may to other people. In fact, everyone has a different amount of sacrifice they can live with.
There is a big split on the EU/NA matter as well.
What I am saying is essentially that in many cases the cost of compromise one has to accept may be heavier than what they would be willing to renounce to play with the people of the community.
So by going ahead and saying "we want one server only" we are likely already cutting people out (how many is hard to say and will also depend on the server rulesets).

To clear things up:
Group n°1 (committing to the idea) has in my opinion a very large number of potential members.
Group n°2 ("committing to the people", perhaps a poor choice of words) is made up of the members of group n°1 that measure their server-related wishes less important than their wish to play with as many people from the community as possible.

I never wanted to imply that I doubt that whoever is part of group n°1 is also committed to taking part in a great community. For some people the wish to play on a specific server is just greater than the wish to play with as many cool people as possible, even if they are very committed to the matter.

* Assuming a specific ruleset is of course early and it may turn out any way and if neatly done it may actually allow us to restrict it to just one server.
However, we can assume already that servers will be split. This will evidently lead to conflicting interests, so I think we should prepare for that already and think of how we would act. I assume the probability for the conflicting interests to be important enough for us to have to consider to split servers is rather high.
Of course, I can always be wrong and there is a possibility for it to work out just fine and for the grand majority interested in the idea to be able to get on board with playing on the one server we choose. That said, I deem that probability not high enough though to emanate from this.


Az:
azarhal wrote:
In fact, I would say that a lot of people in favor of a community based on mutual respect aren't ready to commit to such a community. Lots of people are way to used to "live" among their small group of regular players and they don't want to "sacrifice" anything of this "for the community".
Okay, do you suggest we ignore everyone who has less than the specific level of commitment required to want to play with everyone else regardless of what server the community chooses? It's hard to trace a line here, I think.

It is of course a possibility to include only those in group n°2 (which is vague). I will not exclude this way of approaching the project, it is not as big and ambitious as trying to include n°1 as well. We just have to figure out what we want to do... Which doesn't have to be to unite everyone of group n°1 (which can be a pretty difficult task, yes).


Ald:
I very much have to agree!

I would not like to go down the path to the community that says "this is what we chose and if you are not okay with it, screw you". I generally agree with your opinion that something founded on the idea of respect should not be exclusionary.

It's also very true though that it is an impossible task to unify everyone that commits to the idea.
So there has to be a point where we say: this is as far as we go. That point should be somewhere in between things but I would say as close as we can bear it to be to n°1. Somewhere where anyone who is fond of the idea can join RiG and play with like-minded people, as long as (s)he doesn't have wishes that are outright out of the ordinary to make it improbable to aim for it (e.g.: wanting to play with someone who is already set up on a server, people who are already set up on a different server, wanting to play on the very least favored server type).

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 3:43 am

Right. And I'll be rolling my main character with my guild -- as will most others. But I can see people (myself included) playing alts on the secondary RiG server just to hang out, if needed. The guilds I roll with are generally made up of hardcore PvE players who also happen to love PvP, to the point where they most often roll on PvP servers if there's an option.

I doubt this type would go for a PvE server where flagging was in any way optional.

But you never know, especially until we hear more about how PvP has been designed and implemented.
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Coldhart

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 4:59 am

Well our main talk in the start of R.I.G. was and is most definitely to show the respect that has been lost over the years no matter where we end up.

However, and maybe I wasn't informed of this or maybe it wasn't presented to me clearly enough, but it was my understanding that we wanted to create a great community on one or two servers. That in itself dictates a compromise to joining said server with the hopes of making this fantastic community.

No, I don't wish to try to force anyone's opinions on what server type they choose, but lets face it, when we join whatever server we decide to that will be our main server, that server is where we will spend most of our time...in the end most of us will want to play there with our guild and main toons. This being said once this community splits to join several different servers, I see our chances of bringing people together for PvP events, crafting events and the such dwendling. Yes maybe quite a few of us will make alts on one server and we can try to organize nights to all get together...maybe that will work but I really see more and more remaining on their main server to play and not showing up. I'm not blaiming anyone for that. I might feel the same if noone else from my guild wants to go there for the night I might choose to stay on my server with them...I may not.

Yes we may end up with several different guilds on each server and that would still be nice. But that's not the view of this great community on one server that I was invisioning and lead to believe.

I don't mean to bring people down by saying this. I know what it sounds like. But I'm just looking at it from a probable view point.

Like I said, maybe I didn't understand exactly what we were doing here. But I did believe that all or most of us were trying to make an awesome community on basically one server not just a community on this web site (Is that not what the charter states and refers to?) And I guess I just assumed that this compromise for the greater good of an awesome community was already in everyone's thoughts.

A commitment...a commitment for the greater good of a community. In most commitments come compromise.

An idea without a conviction of commitment is only a glimmer of what could have been.
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 10:34 am

Cold, you were not misinformed at all. The only mentions of the goals and directions besides the notion of respect were in fact to create a great community on one or more servers. But that is not much to begin with. Everyone takes what they like from that. And the idea generally has so much more to offer and the possibilities and directions it can go are flexible. What one has in mind for this may be very different to what another one thinks.

With this thread I am not trying to change everyone’s mind and the whole concept of this community. I just feel it has not yet been properly established what exactly we aim for and it has been vague within the limits of what I explained in my original post.
I think it has come across that I would favor a scenario where we act strictly as a platform that is there to bring the people together, wherever they may be right now or would want to be. This is one "extreme" direction the project can take. It is not what I personally wish for, which is to have one server with as many great people as possible on it (much like what you want).
I just think we have to be realistic about it and realize that not everyone's vision will be the same when they get on these forums. I am putting out there the range of directions we can take, I am rolling out the measuring tape for us to see where we can situate on it. Do we want to go ahead and say "this is where we are, we will not budge a bit"? I believe not. But we also don't want the entire measuring tape.

So while you have made your assumptions of what the community will really look like and what its direction is (which is, granted, close to my personal wish for it and for many others on here as well) it is not and has not been really been said what our direction is within the range of possibilities we have.
I apologize for taking a much too biased approach to the matter by putting one vision out there. I just wanted to illustrate where I could see the direction of the community go as well. I didn't mean to say it is what we should go for, as that is exactly what I want us all to determine more closely.
I may try to edit the opening post so it is more clear a bit later.

A good example for a specific place to be at on that measuring tape has been put by Ald: having one main server to begin with, a secondary one if we feel only one server is asking to compromise too much for a lot of people. But I guess there is one thought I want to proclaim: the more compromise we ask, the more people we exclude (and that can potentially be a lot). So where do we put ourselves on the measuring tape (sorry for the crappy metaphors)? I personally think Ald's suggestion is a good starting point.

Admittedly, we cannot say much more until we really know the server types offered. There is something behind that decision though and that is the vision this community has to embrace beside the notion of respect.

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 11:15 am

I agree with you, Grome, that you won't be able to get everyone in the same box. This whole discussion would be a lot
easier if there weren't different server types, but I understand that that's the way it is handled in MMOs these days.

I too think that one main server has to be determined ( because even if RiG didn't, you would eventually find one server
having more RiGgers on it than others). Then you could still branch out.

For me personally, seeing how big this community already is, the server type does not matter. I would go as far and say
my personal experience would suffer greatly if I would not be able to play with as many RiG members on one server as possible.

Sure you could say that, given RiG keeps growing as it does closer to launchday, it would be possible to put the RPers on an
RP server, the raiders on a PVE server and the PVPers on a PVP server... but I think it would be far less fun:) . After all, it's
diversity that makes a community a great experience! But that's just my opinion.

Is there a poll on this already? Maybe you should do one, to see what matters more to people, the server type, or playing
with as many RiGgers as possible Smile



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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 12:09 pm

Cold....you are a "Crazy" after my own heart. I agree 1000% with your posts.

I still say, once BW clarifiies their server situation, we can better figure out how the RiG gamers will roll servers. I already know that it will be a sad state of "EU versus US" servers....To be 100% Honest....I would play on any time-zone server to keep these RiG players together. I cannot vouch for the rest of the Crazies on this, but, I feel its the "right thing" to post.

In closing, I'd rather the people in RiG go into the same server....regardless of playstyle...Details do not exist on servers....lets keep an open mind til then....

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 1:01 pm

Aylin wrote:
[justify]Is there a poll on this already? Maybe you should do one, to see what matters more to people, the server type, or playing with as many RiGgers as possible Smile
There are polls on server types already but I don't feel like they are telling us anything. Everyone has their preferences.
The more important question should be: Are you ready to sacrifice to play with our people? -Yes, server type wise; -Yes, server location wise; -Yes, both; -No, nothing.
Something like this would make more sense, while when it would be needed to determine what a main server should be, we could come back to the question we have running right now (which is too early at this point).
Maybe it would be good to create this poll. I'll give it a thought and maybe post it later?


Schwen:
Yes, you are right: Let's keep it a bit flexible until we know more about the server rulesets. However, at the same time, it is impossible to not go in a specific direction already. This is what this is about.
You are siding with a specific direction already as well: You agree with Cold that RiG should be about bringing as many like-minded people as possible (best case #1 = all people interested in the idea) on as little an amount of servers as possible (best case #2 = one server).

If you want to look at it mathematically, those are our two variables and there are multiple positions for us to allocate what we want. It's very much like having a specific amount of money available and having to choose how to spend that money best on two different things (like coke and pizzas for instance). Everyone wants a different allocation (everyone wants an infinite amount of both, but that is not possible as we are restricted by our "budget", which is in our case partly mirrored in different wishes for server types, etc), so we have to find the allocation that fits this community. Everyone is fast to assume his allocation seems what the community is there for and that is why we need to clear things up.

We have hinted at what we want a lot in post but the issue for me is that we have never really announced it as "official" direction. The direction (or allocation, if you will) I think has mostly been expressed is to achieve as good as possible best case #2 (with obvious repercussions as to how well we can achieve best case #1). To what extent we want to get as close as possible to best case #2 is probably what we need to figure out and then officially make our direction! Otherwise it's just as if we were all in a dark room and touching an object and everyone is imagining how that object looks like in light and everyone has a slightly different vision for it.

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azarhal

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R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? Empty
PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 1:14 pm

Grome wrote:
Aylin wrote:
[justify]Is there a poll on this already? Maybe you should do one, to see what matters more to people, the server type, or playing with as many RiGgers as possible Smile
There are polls on server types already but I don't feel like they are telling us anything. Everyone has their preferences.
The more important question should be: Are you ready to sacrifice to play with our people? -Yes, server type wise; -Yes, server location wise; -Yes, both; -No, nothing.
Something like this would make more sense, while when it would be needed to determine what a main server should be, we could come back to the question we have running right now (which is too early at this point).
Maybe it would be good to create this poll. I'll give it a thought and maybe post it later?

This type of pool would be interesting to do early next year, but considering the number of guilds following the project, they will need to run something similar internally as well and do this before R.I.G. decide of something. We need to input of everyone.

Quote :
Are you ready to sacrifice to play with our people?
  • Yes, server type wise;
  • Yes, server location wise;
  • Yes, both;
  • No, following guild.
  • No, nothing.

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Calvillanous



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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 3:09 pm

I was of the impression that the "RIG" was intended for a single server. The whole idea was to get people who wanted to PLAY TOR together in a respectful environment..

The various "play-types"IE: PvP, RP, PVE are of a secondary concern. The best way for me to put it? If We as gamers or as a guild make Server type our primary concern? Then we are choosing playstyle before the "People". To ME? Not being willing to make the sacrafice means you are not a proper fit for the concept.

*If We are truely following the "spirit" of my understanding of the RIG? After we fill up whatever server type the majority chooses initialy ... Then we can set our sights on a 2nd server! (which should be different playstyle from the first)


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Stryklone

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 4:02 pm

Personally, I don't care what server type I have a character on.

But is RIG here to assist the player types or the player types here to assist RIG?

If that is the question, does RIG want to say, "Those who play in this room get all the cake. Those in other rooms get none?"

For example, does RIG imagine a hypothetical long-existing guild of online friends saying to its members "Yes, for 6 years we've lived for open PvP servers. But RIG has chosen another as its only type. Sorry, guys?"

It seems unlikely whichever server a person or guild chooses at launch that they'll abandon it en masse to leap to RIG's later announcement of a second server choice. It also seems unlikely they would be willing to not play TOR until such a choice were made.

I vote for all of the guests to get some party cake, even if it means smaller slices. Please, a RIG server for each type. The server with the most numbers ends up being the "main" one.

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Coldhart

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 4:13 pm

See that's what I was getting at Cal...If you read the charter you feel that this "movement" is for the greater good of a community on basically one server...maybe a second depending on how many people we actually bring aboard. That pretty much dictates a feeling of compromise to locate on one server for the greater good of said community. Then why is it people start posting that you can't tell people to go to one specific server? I understand that we can't force people to do what they don't want...I'm not trying to. But why is it that people would join R.I.G. then say well you can't force me to play on that server? Did they not read the charter? Is it me that doesn't understand what we're doing our others who do not understand? From reading the charter I got from it that we would be making a compromise to make this really great community preferably on one server.

Example: I always play on a PvE server and I do not RP. I'll be willing to join a PvP server if that is where the main group wants to go. However, I do not wish to join an RP server. See I didn't just give in to any server but rather I compromised and will switch to a PvP server for the greater good. (Actually they said there will be PvP and PvE servers. They haven't said anything about RP servers yet that I know of).

I mean if this is just an attempt to bring people together on a web site and get the word out about bringing respect back to the community of whatever server you play on, then I am sadly mistaken and I can do this and have always done this on my own and in our guild.

Sorry if I seem a little pissy. Actualy, I am a little pissy about the whole thing. If people are only going to do what they want and go to all different servers anyway, why even bother with this in the first place? See even if we compromise to one server, that server will be great because there would be so many of us that we make our experiences what we want them to be. We make the PvP. We make the PvE. We make the RP. We mold all of these aspects into what we want as a whole on our server.
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Stryklone

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 4:30 pm

Last modified Nov. 10:

"The goal of this charter is to form a group of like-minded individuals and guilds on one or more servers to foster a sense of community and respect among all players."

That's not attempting to invalidate or comment on anyone's position, I just wanted to make doubly sure that my own post and thoughts weren't against the charter.

Again, I'm willing to go play on any server type.
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Coldhart

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 4:40 pm

yeah you have a point Stry

I just read it again and I guess in fact it does not commit to one server. I guess a lot of us were getting carried away with the idea of us all being together on one server.

So then, how do we go about this? I know there is a poll running on what server type you want, but maybe we need to make new threads for guilds under each server type then. That way everyone from each server type can be associated with one another. And Selv can move our guild posts we currently have to the correct guild server type thread. We would of course need to let her know the server type for each guild so she knows where to move all the threads.

This way everyone can see what guilds will be joining what server type, then at launch everyone can pick the same server for that server type.
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Grome
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 5:11 pm

Listen, Cold, there is really no reason to get pissed and frankly I think you are still misunderstanding my point:
Coldhart wrote:
If you read the charter you feel that this "movement" is for the greater good of a community on basically one server...
The thing is, this feeling you got what this movement is about is written down nowhere properly and it is just what you took from the charter. The charter does not specifically say that and it is just a fact that we all have taken from the charter what we like and in our minds moved it in the direction we favor. I have seen how people obviously mentioned different visions but don’t talk about where they want to end up together.
Obviously this discussion was gonna create some confusion but it just doesn’t make sense to pretend there is no discussion to be made when clearly there are differences in how people can (and do) perceive where this project is supposedly going.

I am in no place to judge your or anyone’s envision of the idea (and I haven't, as far as I am concerned, in this thread).

Honestly, for me, it does not lead anywhere in this thread to talk about server-wise compromise (it is not the kind of compromise I am talking about).
I have at no point wanted to say that this community should be simply a website to promote the "respect in gaming". I have also never wanted to say there mustn't be any compromise.
To be honest I have in this thread almost not at all talked about my personal take. So if you are getting heated up over my arguments, there is really no reason for that.

What I have done is announce that there is more than one possible way of understanding how this community should work and that we should be clear about that. We should also change it and clear things up - see what represents best what we all want it to be and put it out there instead of leaving things as vague as they are right now, which can later lead to even greater conflict.

I am not telling you that people should not be forced to compromise, I am telling you that people think differently about how much compromise is acceptable and they are entitled to it. As beautiful as the vision is of just having everyone on one server - especially some guilds may not be able to go along with it entirely. Do you want to exclude them for that or do you want to find a compromise as to how and to what extent the community should try include like-minded people? That is the real compromise we should talk about (not the server decision, which is on a lower level and is a different topic).

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Calvillanous



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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 7:58 pm

"The goal of this charter is to form a group of like-minded individuals and guilds on one or more servers to foster a sense of community and respect among all players."

Thanks Stryklone for reposting the above. That does change my view to a certain extent. So my next question: How do we begin to divide the RIG People up (While keeping us together at the same time)? < -- The only logical way is to use the next biggest differential: Server types.

IMHO the Guild intro page needs to have a further seperation/description tab. Ie: These guilds are leaning towards the different server types & a further "Undecided" & or "Open-minded" group.

Why should this be done? Sure the initial idea is a great one, but? I'd personaly like to be able to get a little closer to the indivduals whom I know will be on My RIG server.

AND finaly to answer the question in the thread's tittle? No, Not many Servers, Yes to one of every type!! <-- This is my best guess using my limmited intellect.

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 8:49 pm

Calvillanous wrote:

AND finaly to answer the question in the thread's tittle? No, Not many Servers, Yes to one of every type!! <-- This is my best guess using my limmited intellect.

Assuming that there is four types of servers I just worry that this will spread us thin. Especially since an EU/NA split would mean eight servers. (Oceania would make it twelve.) Some people are saying PvP or bust while others are saying PvE or bust.. If we could agree on RP v. Non RP that would half the number of servers we are spread over. As I'm guessing we will be able to RP on non RP servers and we won't be forced to RP on RP servers I think this compromise is doable. I think I've made my preference and reasons known on this split in this and other threads. I personally will go to whatever server the majority of the people I have gotten to know in this community go. Community trumps ruleset for me.
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 9:18 pm

Ok I sadly only have Internet access from my phone lol, so cannot post too long a reply until I have Internet access
Properly on my lappy, but for me I honestly don't have much if any concern on server type.

I have said it before but I would end up where ever the majority here end up playing, regardless of game style type.

Honestly, designated server types offer nothing more than a target audience, not playing on one does not stop you from doing anything, and it comes down to you, and what's more important?

The people you will play with?

Being on a set server which just enables you to think your on a server which offers no more or less than any other?

Only an open world PVP server is different, but you tend to get a ton of griefers on those servers, and they can get quite tedious after a while to play on from my experience. still up to you guys Smile I will play anywhere, but my actually preference is an unmarked server, it avoids the elitists, you can still take part in any aspect of game play that interests you, but for me above all this is you guys. It's you guys who will make or break TOR for me, and as such I honestly don't care about server type at all, so long as you guys are about I can do everything, and take part in anything, you would be my community, you would be the ones who dictate my gameplay, not some letters after a server name telling me that Smile

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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 11:58 pm

Ty-Odi wrote:
Only an open world PVP server is different, but you tend to get a ton of griefers on those servers, and they can get quite tedious after a while to play on from my experience.
To be honest Open World PvP is my favorite type of PvP, (allow me to clarify, Open World PvP for me does not mean ganking, but actually defending the low level players from the abusive high level players, raid a city, that kind of stuff) so if at all possible I would love to see RiG on that kind of server.

I do not see such a big problem towards people not committing themselves fully (according to N.2) to the RiG cause which apparently means choosing the same server (that would be great tho). In my opinion it is our attitude what makes us part of the community, not the server we play on or the amount of fellow RiGers we play with. So even if there is a server with just one RiGer it can only mean the possibility for our community to become larger, I take a bit of foolish pride in the fact that whatever clan/guild I create is usually almost exclusively formed by members which could easily be part of our community, respectful, fun and crazy in some cases.

Let us not stress ourselves so much with this issue, I would love being able to play on the same server as most of you (and most likely will) but if for whatever reason I can not, still I will be part of the community because long before I had signed the RiG charter, already that was the only way I know how to play.
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PostSubject: Re: R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect?   R.I.G.'s directions and goals: How much commitment do we expect? I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 24, 2010 1:19 am

The question is not how committed are you yourself, but how much commitment do we ask people to have.

I would not say we need to be in every server type, at least not to begin with. My personal opinion is that there should be a certain amount of compromise. I don't think we can go as far and ask for people to play on a server located several hours across the globe. That is where I see a split potentially incoming. As for server types, I cannot judge, as we know nothing about the rulesets.

The purpose of this thread wasn't to determine where exactly we should split anyway. It was just to open the minds to the possibility that other people might think differently about the matter (how much compromise we expect) or even the whole of the project's goals.

I still feel like my opening post does not give that impression, so I will try to edit it if I find the time. Also, I kind of tried to add another topic to it, what would your short and long-term goals be (just as az answered it) but it got swallowed in the discussion.

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