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Coldhart

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PostSubject: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 11, 2011 7:32 am

This may help a little on our server questions. Pulled this from the new TOR creat-a-guild program, faq's...

Star Wars: The Old Republic will offer different server types that emphasize different styles of game play such as Player-vs-Environment, Player-vs-Player, and Role- Play. When your guild gets transferred into the game, it will be placed on the server type that most matches your selection.

Player-vs-Environment (PvE) servers can be considered representative of the standard play style and rule set. The focus on PvE servers is on experiencing the story and working with friends against the non-player enemies in the game world.

Player-vs-Player (PvP) servers have a slightly different rule set as PvE servers. On a PvP server, players may be attacked by other players from the opposing faction in more areas of the game world.

Role-Playing (RP) servers use the standard PvE rule set, but are identified as great places for players who enjoy acting out their characters in the game world to congregate and find other like-minded players.
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Ty-Odi
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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 11, 2011 9:15 am

Hmmm, so no mention of mixed server types on there? Interesting.

I honestly cannot wait to find out exactly what they will be!! Smile

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Aylin

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 11, 2011 9:21 am

The PVE Server description sounds like the only PVP will be in battlegrounds, so probably no open world flagging system. I really would like more detailed info about the different rulesets, come on Bioware Smile
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vlak

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 11, 2011 10:13 am

Aylin wrote:
The PVE Server description sounds like the only PVP will be in battlegrounds, so probably no open world flagging system. I really would like more detailed info about the different rulesets, come on Bioware Smile

agreed
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Godric_Barbarosa

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 11, 2011 1:31 pm

I could still see flagging for PvP on PvE servers.

I am disappointed there will be no special rules/enforcement for RP servers. Some channels where OOC is not allowed, something. Hell, I'd settle for banning anyone from the server who types "Chuck Norris"00 or "Leeroy Jenkins"
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azarhal

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 11, 2011 1:42 pm

Aylin wrote:
The PVE Server description sounds like the only PVP will be in battlegrounds, so probably no open world flagging system. I really would like more detailed info about the different rulesets, come on Bioware Smile

What we need is a description of those PvP areas, how many there are is the "slight" difference between PvE/RP servers and PvP servers. From the description, I actually had the impression that PvE servers had Open PvP zones, just less of them.

In a way, these aren't rulesets, they are just a way to split the guild on servers that fit their "agenda", in the context that PvE servers will technically have less PvP and RP is only "cosmetic" (need role-players on them).

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 11, 2011 2:12 pm

Godric_Barbarosa wrote:
I am disappointed there will be no special rules/enforcement for RP servers. Some channels where OOC is not allowed, something.
Totally agree with you here. I play Rift on an RP server but since Trion haven't set any special rules for them, 95% of all chat in /say or /yell is OOC. I'm no hardcore role player, but this is so painful to listen. Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 11, 2011 10:32 pm

to read, you mean, zep.


anywho, I think we should finally get it over with and make a decision as to where we want to put our focus.

we could probably wait for more details but I mean, come on, we're never gonna be able to please everyone and there's always gonna be people who woulda picked something else but one thing is sure, the longer we wait, the more disappointment there will be.

pick a lane!

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Coldhart

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 13, 2011 5:27 pm

Well, they say the standard PvE rule set. If we look at most MMO's, the standard is some zones that are one sided, some zones that are shared by both sides, but none that are just open PvP zones. In a standard ruleset, you have to flag for open world PvP. Or enter the PvP battlegrounds.

The standard for a PvP server is usually, you start in one sided zones for your faction only. As you progress, you start getting into contested zones where both factions will be roaming freely. These servers also have PvP battlegrounds as well. And allthough your starting zones are your faction only, sooner or later you'll see members of the other faction roaming there as well.

For RP, well I guess we'll have to wait and see what they will give as far as OOC chat and things of that nature.

TBH, I aggree. I think we need to just make a decission and go with it. I mean most of us already have anyway, looking at Schwens player server list. I'm not sure if I've ever seen more info on server styles than what they just provided us for any other MMO. You kind of just get an idea of the standard as they put it and pick.
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Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 13, 2011 8:12 pm

There's still a ton of time though...

I would'nt want to get pigeon-holed into a server as a community and later regret it. Lets keep that list going...plz all put your name-preference on the "server list" as well as the "player class" list. It will better facilitate getting the RiG crew together in more ways than one! There's still tons to figure out, and plentiful time to do it...Wink

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Grome
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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 13, 2011 10:29 pm

Schwendo wrote:
There's still a ton of time though...

I would'nt want to get pigeon-holed into a server as a community and later regret it. Lets keep that list going...plz all put your name-preference on the "server list" as well as the "player class" list. It will better facilitate getting the RiG crew together in more ways than one! There's still tons to figure out, and plentiful time to do it...Wink
I get your train of thought, but you should consider this: Uncertainty doesn't exactly help people to commit to this. (some might in the end decide to commit to something else instead at some point)

And I don't see how we could make our decision much better later on. We know the server types, so there is not much more to wait for. The trend on your list-thread is also unmistakably shifted to PvE.

As has been suggested, we might possibly set our focus on PvE while still choose one server of each other server type as alternative gathering point.

I acknowledge we still have time, but why adjourn the discussion and decision when there is no obvious benefit anymore? At least regarding server-type. Excuse me if I have however overlooked something.

I understand it can be important to keep things flexible but in this case you'll have to explain to me why. Smile

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Godric_Barbarosa

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 14, 2011 12:37 am

Grome wrote:

I get your train of thought, but you should consider this: Uncertainty doesn't exactly help people to commit to this. (some might in the end decide to commit to something else instead at some point)

This is where I'm at exactly. I want to guild up soon to get to build a relationship with guildies before launch. I would like to join an RP guild but I also want to be on the server with the most RiG people with whom I've built up a relationship. I'd hate to join a guild only to find out later that they are not going to be on the server with the majority of RiG.
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Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 14, 2011 12:38 am

I would like to get more members opinions before pre-emptively jumping on one. If the game is launching next month, I could see panicking into a server type. long as there's time to "get it right" I see no need to jump in just yet. The way they are dragging their feet on the definitive release date, its looking like we will have a bunch more time bro. PvE is looking like the main one at this time, that could change though. I agree that we should have an "alternate" RiG affiliated site for anyone who does not fall into the main majorities site type.

On top of all that, we still have the time zone issue to settle. I can see me starting a separate topic on that just to feel out what everyone prefer's. I'm also sure that they should be a alternate time zone RiG affiliated server as well...

Lastly, I don't see a bunch of people say, "I'm tired of waiting on a server type...i'm bailing." Those are the types of players that are'nt really interested in the RiG concept to begin with if they can't just "see it through" and find happiness with the entire community. I, for one, am going nowhere Wink....nor are my gang of merry Crazies...What would Brian Boitano do??

Thx for the input though Grome, you still rock! And now you got ME writing "wall-o-texts" *scolds* Smile))))


Good point Godric..I see your dilemma. I think as of right now, a RiG PvE server looks to be the trend. I would like it to stay that way, but who knows Sad. You 2 DO make an interesting point, though. Comments anyone else??

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 14, 2011 1:52 am

TL;DR Version:
  • The RiG happened because Ty and Selven DID something while everyone else talked about the lack of respect in gaming and called for others to make changes. Therefore we should keep DOING at the small risk of having to backtrack later.
  • The history of other MMOs confirms our current statistics in selecting PvE as a primary server type.
  • Because there's no probability of reconciliation between the "must have PvP" and the "must NOT have PvP" mindsets, we should have a secondary RiG server for PvP.


Make a decision now?
Honestly, I feel I could have predicted the outcome of this discussion months ago. There is enough history with other MMOs on this subject that I truly believe that we already know how the statistics will shake out.

Schwendo, let me turn your logic around on you a little. (Apologies in advance. I like your reasoning, but it can be applied the other way as well Smile ) Those who are going to bail on us just because we didn't choose their server type as primary "are the types of players that aren't really interested in the RiG concept to begin with". If, by some dark miracle we get it wrong, we can flip flop things around without significant disruption. And I don't see how timezone choice in anyway affects server type decision making.

The advantages to choosing now are planning and leadership.

Leadership: Apologies (again!) for pulling back the veil a bit on this, but leadership is accomplished by leading, not by holding people back. If The RiG is going to actually do something, it needs to continue making things happen for people. Good leaders move forward getting things done, and backtrack if something comes up to change the circumstances. I read many threads decrying the lack of respect amongst gamers and did nothing. But when Ty and Selven came along and made a forum calling for people to join them in creating a community, I followed. Much of the reduced posting on this forum of late is due to the fact that those who were out doing things got pulled away by real life (whatever that is Wink ). If we want to maintain momentum moving forward, we have to keep doing, building, and creating things.

Planning: Choosing a guild can be impacted by the server type simply because it impacts what you'll spend your time doing. (I'd choose a larger guild so that there'd likely be more people nearby to help out if I was ganked.) It can also affect how you level your skills vs. your xp. (If I were going to make a serious effort at playing on a PvP server I'd try to get my first toon to high levels ASAP so as to avoid being camped as much as possible. On a PvE server I'll try to let my crafting keep up better.) In short, the people I know who are planning on playing this game are already "geeking out" with thinking about their plans and characters. The more they know, the happier they are. And planning is the primary aspect of doing before launch day.

(And before someone labels me for how I choose guilds, let me just point out that that these only illustrate a small part of that decision process. I could make good friends in most or all of the guilds here... yes, even the PvP guilds though I make no pretense of liking PvP. Razz )


My notes on the circumstances of this discussion:
  • There is a large group of people who will go wherever.
  • There is a group of people who require a PvE rule set.
  • There are at least a few who require a PvP rule set.
  • In the history of MMOs there has been no real reconciliation between those who hate PvP and those who love PvP rule sets.


Based on all of this I recommend:
Because the two viewpoints on PvP rule sets cannot be reconciled I do not believe we choose only one server. Due to the disparity in numbers of people for PvE vs. for PvP I suggest we plan to set a primary PvE server.

Due to the fact we cannot include everyone on a single server I believe we need a secondary server. I therefore suggest we encourage and support as much as possible those guilds and people who require a PvP ruleset to create a secondary RiG server. Support should, at a minimum, include making people aware of the PvP server and rolling any PvP server alts on that server.

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Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 14, 2011 5:01 am

You make a good point Ald', just like Grome and Godric did.

I'd like to hear (read) Ty and Selv's thoughts on this. I am willing to follow their choice whatever it may be. I also agree on your reasoning of people remaining no matter what we do.

Timezone will have an impact on server decision, not server "type". That is a discussion for a later date, though.

All I have is the opinion of patience....thats just my .02 Wink

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Aldemarran

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 14, 2011 5:53 am

Schwendo wrote:
...

All I have is the opinion of patience....thats just my .02 Wink

And its not a bad opinion at that. My weighting of the reasoning is based heavily in my own past mistakes and successes. I'm not always the best at conveying that I want to hear both sides of a discussion. Thanks for voicing yours.

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Coldhart

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 14, 2011 7:59 am

Well as far as time...noone knows anything at all for sure. There have been rumors of a September release, and TBH I can see that happening. They're taking way too long to get vital info released still and they're also still alpha testing. I would think that they would also do some sort of beta testing before launch as well. I can see TOR missing the spring release for sure.

I'm on the fence about hurrying and casting your vote. TBH I think that TOR was always going to use standard server types and I really never understood why people had to wait to make a decission. However, there were a few things I could see, i.e. if RP would be included with PvP or PvE, etc. To me, I say just get it over with, then worry about the other things. If everyone just casts their vote and we decide, then the only thing is to pick the actual server name when we know the names.

As far as US and Euro servers...well, if people in the UK can't play on a US server and vise versa, then we're kind of screwed to begin with. If we CAN all play together, then who cares about time zone? We have people right now in Rift who play all different hours. Some are on in the morning. Some are on as late as 4 a.m. EST. Unless you're restricted to a certain time to play...then I can see some concern. Which, I know, most of us do work so time can play a part. But we have people from both areas right now. So no matter what server we all join, we're going to run into the "time of play" problem, so why does it matter at all. There's nothing we can do about it. Worrying about it and trying to make decissions based on it is pointless. If my usual play time is 6pm to 12pm EST and some of our fellow RIG'ers don't play until 8 or 10 hours later for their prime time, how can we fix that? You can't. The best we can do is be on the same server and maybe we do play together from time to time. I mean if you want, you can give me your boss's phone number. I can call him/her and tell them that you have to work nights because we need to all play together in TOR lmao.


I have the utmost respect for all of you guys here, so don't take this the wrong way. When it comes to the whole "time zone" and "Continent play time" stuff, I think everyone is making a mountain out of a mole hill. Like I said, there's nothing we can do about it except try to find a guild or guilds from RIG who's play time at least sort of matches yours. Like with us Crazies...I can tell you right now, our prime time is around 6pm to 12 pm EST Sunday thru Thursday, and later on the weekends. Some of us play durring the day and later durring the week. But for the most part, it's 6 to 12.
So back to your points. I honestly see no reason why we can't all decide now on a server. Even if you still want to find someone to fit in with who plays around your prime time, that can be decided on even after we have our server decission.

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Grome
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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 14, 2011 1:41 pm

Great post Ald! There is pretty much nothing to add to that, really coined it!

I agree that the major split between "PvP" and "no thanks" should pave the way for a two server solution.


Schwen,

yes, things can change - but things always change, so technically this would potentially require us to switch our focus around all the time, even with the game released. The fact is, you have to make a choice at some point and stick with it - no one is going to follow a guy who doesn't know what to do come the first road-split.
It'd be different if things were pretty close but as of now PvE is a predominant choice (historically as well, as Ald pointed out) so it seems almost daring to wait for things to change.

I also think timezone information does not influence this decision.

I see the argument that people committed enough to RiG will stay either way but Ald said it indeed: Planning is important for people who occupy themselves with the game this early on - they want things to move forward unless they know their situation in the game exactly.
The amount of people who almost not care at all about what server they will end up on is not very big so you can assume that most people would be delighted to finally know what the choice for this community is.


Cold,

I agree, it should be possible for us to play on the same server.
There is a major problem though: Unless there is a server actually labeled "international" or something of the likes, some people WILL end up playing on a server with something like 20% activity unless they change their playtimes.
I know already not everyone will be happy with this. And I can understand - after all, a good part of why an MMO is so interesting is because it feels like a living world (and therefore this can be a dealbreaker for some)
A split here might be necessary too... as much as I hope it won't. Because if you then just go with one timezone, you'll lose a lot of people from the other timezones and the ones who stick with it are gonna find themselves in a unenviable situation, they won't see many RiGer's and they won't see many other people either because they are potentially playing in the morning hours of their server.

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 14, 2011 2:23 pm

A bit of info from Mr. Reid

[QUOTE=StephenReid;5701014]The types of server listed for the Guild HQ system were to help broadly divide guilds into categories, to assist in their placement in the import (AKA 'Deployment') phase pre-launch.

They are not a definitive record of what server types SWTOR will have at launch, so you should not assume they are.

The Guild HQ FAQ is for FAQs about the Guild HQ system - not the game as a whole.
[/QUOTE]

I'd like to also say, that even if we did pick a server now, we still have time to change it later since the game isn't out yet.

I'm good either way, I could pick now, or just wait.
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Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 14, 2011 3:19 pm

I am with ya, Kai. I will go with you all either way, so, in the short AND long, this discussion is moot from my end...hehe.

Great points from all sides, like I said a while ago, if this topic was on the main TOR site, it would be a nightmare. Glad we can have civil discussions whether we agree on things or not. kudos..

It would be great to find out the main preferred time zone for the majority of RiG also. My dumb azz (<--Selvan profanity filter activated) will be playing all kinds of hours. I'll be with Cold n' the gang 6pm-12am, with Danwe and the power gamers after my shows 3am-7am, AND even sometimes during the day when the lil mans sleeping...

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 14, 2011 3:34 pm

Kai-Sun wrote:
A bit of info from Mr. Reid

[QUOTE=StephenReid;5701014]The types of server listed for the Guild HQ system were to help broadly divide guilds into categories, to assist in their placement in the import (AKA 'Deployment') phase pre-launch.

They are not a definitive record of what server types SWTOR will have at launch, so you should not assume they are.

The Guild HQ FAQ is for FAQs about the Guild HQ system - not the game as a whole.

I'd like to also say, that even if we did pick a server now, we still have time to change it later since the game isn't out yet.

I'm good either way, I could pick now, or just wait.[/quote]

Wow, really? How the hell can you even start what they did with this whole guild reserve thing and then say "These may or may not be the actual exact server types we have at launch"? On one hand, they're telling us to pick a server for the guild to start on and telling us that our guild will end up on that server type. Then they say these may not be the end result for server types!? Wait, did they hire someone from Sony?
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Schwendo

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 14, 2011 3:46 pm

ROFL! Cold, that DID sound like some SOE SWG banter!! /hi5

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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 15, 2011 12:25 am

Coldhart wrote:


I'd like to also say, that even if we did pick a server now, we still have time to change it later since the game isn't out yet.

I'm good either way, I could pick now, or just wait.

Wow, really? How the hell can you even start what they did with this whole guild reserve thing and then say "These may or may not be the actual exact server types we have at launch"? On one hand, they're telling us to pick a server for the guild to start on and telling us that our guild will end up on that server type. Then they say these may not be the end result for server types!? Wait, did they hire someone from Sony?[/quote]

I think it's them taking more a look at what they do end up wanting due to a lot of outcry for different server types, they may not have really thought more was necessary, but they do sometimes listen to the community and make adjustments as they see fit.
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PostSubject: Re: Server Types   Server Types I_icon_minitime

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