How do we measure Success?

This is one thing we are going to be asked
Did it work?
How can we really prove it did anything?


One thing we need to understand is who we are, what we want to do and what we think is right, isnt going to work for everyone. No one thing pleases all.
We want to make people and community an important part of the gaming experience, but how will we ever tell? Will there be a point where we can look back and say hey this is the result of our work, our change our efforts!
To me i find it hard to see us actually at a point where we can define success, while we could more easily find failure of this project then we could find the Success( not saying its going to fail but will be easier to see )
To me it will be successful if we make a difference to, ourselves, our guilds, our friends, and those we interact with. If we open minds and get people to think we have started to walk the path of victory, we cant and wont be able to go out of the way for everyone, and thats not the real idea of this project,.

If we can get people thinking maybe changing we may see a domino effect, and basically Jawa see Jawa do.
Its hard to define for me, but thats how i will be measuring it.

What about you, what defines success of this project? how do you know its a success for community, and could you tell its the direct result of this gathering?

Thoughts, comments and concerns are always welcome

I believe the "success" of this project can boil down to one simple thing...

Once you are IG, and playing TOR, are you having fun with the people IG??

If "yes" is the answer to that question...It has succeeded.

Ask that same pertinent question now about the RiG forums..Are you having fun posting, reading the posts, offering your opinions, having your opinions read and thought over, listening to goofballs posting music, reading/watching silly news articles from all over, organizing guilds/players/factions....are you having fun in here now?

I can answer that....YES!...Therefore, I believe this is "Succeeding"


Just my .02...

Crebain wrote:

...
I say if we up that chance of meeting nice people for others, it will spread like a virus!
...

My experience is that there are a lot of people preaching "Viral Decency", but I've never seen decency be contagious. I have seen it make a server a target. But gathering already decent people into one server absolutely improves our ability to find like-minded people to enjoy the game with. I would say that if we can give a server or two a name for not being good for >expletive deleted<, but instead being a place where decency is welcome, we will have succeeded. I do believe that to succeed we will need to have both a carrot and a stick. But that's a discussion for some other thread.

Schwendo wrote:

I believe the "success" of this project can boil down to one simple thing...

Once you are IG, and playing TOR, are you having fun with the people IG??

If "yes" is the answer to that question...It has succeeded.

Ask that same pertinent question now about the RiG forums..Are you having fun posting, reading the posts, offering your opinions, having your opinions read and thought over, listening to goofballs posting music, reading/watching silly news articles from all over, organizing guilds/players/factions....are you having fun in here now?

I can answer that....YES!...Therefore, I believe this is "Succeeding"


Just my .02...

^What he said.

Darka wrote:

No one thing pleases all.

But what about cookies. Who is not pleased by cookies?

I think Schwendo is partially right. The goal is to have fun, and we are having fun. On the other hand, we could have fun in our own guilds without effecting the server at large. I think we will have succeeded if whatever server(s) we are on are known as the server(s) to join because there are people there that are genuinely respectful and helpful.

Will this make us a target of people who want to grief us and everyone else? Probably, but in all honesty, I believe the true griefer is few and far between. It is always the few bad apples that taint the bunch, but I think if there are enough people that go out of their way to help people we can achieve more notice.

Only "partially"? hehe

I gotcha GB...I feel to try and get others to do things is made vastly easier by setting the example. Not just one guild...but ALL the RiG guilds on both sides of the "faction fence". If other gamers on the server see the actions fostered by the RiG gamers example setting, then they will be VERY compelled to follow suit. A kind of "why go against the grain" scenario, vice, "Hey do what we do"

We're on the same sheet o' music, though, GB


I, for one, plan on leading by example. And, from the front...Rommel/ Patton/ Alexander (no, not Colin Farrel...what a terrible movie) style

This project has already succeeded for me. I've already met a bunch of awesome people to take into TOR and other games/projects with.

How would I measure success?

I can only tell you a quick story.
In WoW, after some time playing on a particular server (and before certain 'lets make things easier' patches), I got a whisper from a stranger who was a much lower level than I was. She just wanted to ask a few questions, if I had the time to chat. No problem. New to the game (I think she was level 7 and had been playing for a couple of weeks), definitely new to games in general, didn't know how to find or get into a guild, what were some common goals, how did you make money, how do you do crafting, good places to do certain things, etc. She honestly had nobody to talk to. She had been told to stfu in general chat when she tried to ask there. I think we chatted for about an hour sitting on some out-of-the-way hill.

In this particular instance, because of what was said, how it was said and most importantly because it wasn't asked for, I gave her some money (and taught her how to trade with other players) to help things along and I made her some large bags because storage is always a complete $#(*&# in these games. I think we all know what it's like being a first character in a game economy centered around having established alts.

"OMG, thank you, thank you, thank you, I'll pay you back as soon as I can" (insignificant amount of gold but enough for her to get some very basic starter gear, learn her professions and have a bit left over to train for a couple of levels while she was getting her own money-making up to speed)

I replied that No, I wasn't expecting to be repaid; there'll come a day when she'd meet someone else who she would know is also new and she could help them out - she could show them the game and answer their questions because by that time, she would know.
Didn't hear boo from her again besides the occasional 'hello' for the next month and occasional pleasantries (we were the same class) and the occasional crossed paths around a main hub. She had made friends around her level, and was in a guild.

9 odd months later I get a whisper. "You probably don't remember me, but you helped me last April and I just wanted to tell you that I payed it forward. I won't ever forget you helping me." I honestly fell off my chair. 9 months. Does that mean that she held onto 'kindness' for that long? From one act, from one person in an otherwise sea of rudeness and hostility just for asking well thought out questions and getting answers.

That's how I know something was a success. It's been years since that happened, but I can remember her whisper, what the screen looked like when I read her words, everything. She told me about her actions as a source of pride *in a video game*
Sometimes you don't need to see the effects immediately; in fact, the surprise long term ones can be even more rewarding.

Now, multiply the possibility of repeating that if there are 20 or 30 or 50 of us doing it and the degree of snowballing it could potentially have.

(and no, I don't normally condone handing out money like candy to new players; No easy rides - teach them, don't do it for them. But I also didn't think I was doing anything that an average guild/league/fellowship/whatever wouldn't normally do for a new player themselves)

Great story Nate! Hope things will get rolling like that in TOR as well

a little effort goes a long way

Nathe, thats awesome, and Echo's so many of my own memories

And for me that will also be one of the yard sticks I use as a measure of success. If you can positively influence just one person, then I will find happiness in that, if I can help more than that, and in turn see others doing likewise I will be happy as a pig in sh.. (so to speak hehe)

But as mentioned prior, the success of this project for me, is seeing all those involved in the project looking back at this and being glad they were a part of it.

If in 5 years time, people are looking back on another forum for another game, and using this concept as a template for something similar, and trying to re-enact it in that game, you will have no idea how much that would make me happy.

I would love to bring this sense of community to every person on a server, but i'm reallistic enough to know that won't be the case, so for me, it is you guys, it is you who's happiness will show whether this has been a success or not

/Uses the Darkside to make everyone think they are happy!!!

LOL

I usually tell people to pay it forward if they want to give thanks, that way the word spreads and people have a chance of getting more social. Haven't had that response though to hear back that it's done.

I also feel that it will be a lot better if we can all help someone and ask paying it forward (or paying it forward twice, pretty much making it into a pyramid scheme... but without it being that schemey).

The last few months i started to loose convidence in the TOR community...until Kai directed me here.
It was on the RIG forums where i refound the convidence for the community part of the game.
Personally i am convinced that the community is a game maker or breaker with my playstyle and intrests.
So from my side a big thank you for taking an initiative in this...let me know if i can do something to help out.

I agree with you all!


*Setting the example...

*Making the social interact-schwen fun...

*Taking care of each other throughout the spectrum of IG needs...

*Never getting "too serious" to negate that "fun factor"...

*Holding obtrusive players accountable for their actions en masse...


Is the way to go...and success will surely follow...

Kai is correct...we have already succeeded in finding many many like minded individuals...

We have a good start, and good platform, now up beyond and above we must take this.
The success wont come after one week, we need to look back at 6 months, at 12 months, at 2 years and be able to see the difference, know it.

I think we'll be successful if we can have one night where the "general" chat never mentions Chuck Norris...

All kidding aside, I think success is measured in greys rather than black and white answers. After playing a year when the veneer of the "newness" of the game has worn off, can we step back and say that we enjoy playing on our server more than we have in other games, is the community more conducive to civil interactions, is the juvenile behavior minimized compared to other games we've played, do we look forward to logging in every day? I know that I will not get along with everyone I will interact with on the server just as that is true in real life, but when friction arises is that the exception rather than the norm? What makes a game enjoyable for me is not not necessarily why you find the game fun, but do you let me have my fun and do I let you have yours?

To those in the USA, have a happy holiday tomorrow.

Like Schwendo said, these forums alone are a success. People take their entertainments seriously, and we able to debate that passion for fun without flame.

In the long run, in the game itself, I'll judge it a success if no one who joined R.I.G. leaves the game because of rudeness or personal insult.

Sylrah wrote:

<snip> .... (or paying it forward twice, pretty much making it into a pyramid scheme... but without it being that schemey).

(half hearted joking here)
I disagree; I say we make it TOTALLY pyramid schemed! 2, 3 times forward, people pointing people in this forum's direction to read the charter and suggest that they join up here if they approve of what it stands for!

The R.I.G. - Respect in Gaming
-Membership: 247,000 members (and still no new chairs)

Get the un-aware people talking about it and thinking "Oh my GOD! That wasn't just a one-off of someone just being decent, there's a whole organized group of people out there doing this!"
Get a movement going at a rate that would make a Communist Government nervous.

Make it so the rude a**hole spouting off to get his jollies instead gets looked down on with raised eyebrows and the misery-mongers have a harder time finding like-minded people to play with instead of silently being put up with by everybody (until they change, not until they quit; that's wrong and hurts everyone). Bring back the "I don't have to deal with this abuse, I have options" that players used to feel they had.

If someone doesn't approve, they simply have nothing to do with us; it's not like anything's being forced. But for the ones who it inspires... *cha-ching!*

<Did ya see what I did there? huh? huh? Money sound for a pyramid scheme. Get it?>

Hold on, the nurse says it's obviously time for my medication again; brb

Thx Stry'!


Nice Nate'!

Ow, my head hurrrts. Darned (<--Selvan profanity filter activated) 12 round TKO from Jager last night

Good plans there Nate!

Suggestion: Since we are obviously gonna have considerable funds... Say we take over BW and influence development?

Grome wrote:

Good plans there Nate!

Suggestion: Since we are obviously gonna have considerable funds... Say we take over BW and influence development?

From the course catalogue of the Heavily Influencing School of Sith Strategic Studies (aka HISSSS):
EVILDOING 453
Instructor: S. Palpatine
The course teaches how to manipulate from hiding while keeping an unsuspecting figurehead in place.
If the influencing fails the figurehead takes all the blame.
If it succeeds we take all the credit.



All course work developed by Sith Need A Plan Incorporated (aka SNAP).
Entire evil plan copyright SNAP-HISSSS.

Stryklone wrote:

From the course catalogue of the Heavily Influencing School of Sith Strategic Studies (aka HISSSS):
EVILDOING 453
Instructor: S. Palpatine
The course teaches how to manipulate from hiding while keeping an unsuspecting figurehead in place.
If the influencing fails the figurehead takes all the blame.
If it succeeds we take all the credit.

All course work developed by Sith Need A Plan Incorporated (aka SNAP).
Entire evil plan copyright SNAP-HISSSS.

Stryklone wrote:

Grome wrote:

Good plans there Nate!

Suggestion: Since we are obviously gonna have considerable funds... Say we take over BW and influence development?

From the course catalogue of the Heavily Influencing School of Sith Strategic Studies (aka HISSSS):
EVILDOING 453
Instructor: S. Palpatine
The course teaches how to manipulate from hiding while keeping an unsuspecting figurehead in place.
If the influencing fails the figurehead takes all the blame.
If it succeeds we take all the credit.



All course work developed by Sith Need A Plan Incorporated (aka SNAP).
Entire evil plan copyright SNAP-HISSSS.

::speechless::