Hi there! - Respect in Gaming as I understand it

Earlier today, while browsing the SWToR.com forums, I stumbled upon one of the more interesting ideas I have seen... I followed the breadcrumb trail and it led me here.

Hiya, RiG community! <3

I am a friendly elitist carebear with lots of playful (and well intentioned) banter - a huge fan of PVP that never actually engages in any; a casual hardcore raider and all around nice guy.. But please, call me TK.

After reading your thread "A community based on mutual respect. (Part 2)", my immediate thought was 'I definately want to be a part of that!' and I made a mental note to keep an eye on the community until the time came when information about SWToR servers came out and well... Create my character wherever the majority went ( and coerce all my friends to come with me, wether they like it or not ).

However, as I read through the thread, I realised that may be a somewhat hasty decision. What the OP proposed was an ideal. Ideals rarely match reality exactly and I'm sure we all have different ideas of what a perfect community might look like. To lay out my point naked and bare - I don't know you, RiG community. And I am here to get to know you and find out if we can be friends *HUG*

I'm not a very active reader, much less poster, in the SWToR.com forums. I only check every now and then for some SWToR information. Yet, when I check some of the threads and read some of the responses - my forehead gets sore from all the facepalms. Some of those posts were made by roleplayers, and I'm sure that some of them are part of the community here.

The issue I have with roleplayers is that I find a lot of them take themselves too seriously and are rather easy to offend. This is based on my past experiences with them and the fact that I used to be a hardcore roleplayer. So hardcore that I would spend months developing a character in story, background, details and pictures before even attempting to play them out, and I found roleplaying in an MMO was too restrictive. Freeform all the way <3

By no means is this uniquely a roleplayer trait... What I'm afraid of - is having to tip-toe around others, lest I get put on a blacklist of sorts as 'EVIL PERSON, STAY AWAY FROM THEM". No-one has ever had to be careful with their words around me and if for some reason they actually are, I make damn sure they knock it off! Doesn't matter if they're my best friend or a complete stranger. I pride myself on being nigh-impossible to offend, and I welcome you to try (lolololol).

As a wise man once said: "A truly tollerant society is one where anyone can make a joke about anything, and everybody laughs.."

And though I know that not everyone can be like that, please understand that I don't want to be stuck in the other side of the extreme, a boring community with everyone trying real hard to be nice to everyone, without being able to relax once in a while, damnit!

So, now that you know my worries, allow me to tell you a little more about me, to show you that I'm not all that bad ( at least I hope I'm not ).

To illustrate my way of understanding respect in gaming (not RiG, but... respect in gaming), here are some actual examples from my past, in various MMO's that I've played in:

• Ragnarok Online - This was my very first MMO, and calling me a 'n00b' at that stage of my gaming career would probably be a compliment. As a Mage I discovered that meleeing mobs was actually quite effective ( since I didn't put any points into Intellect it's no wonder my spells were rubbish ). A random, more experienced, stranger that I met pointed this out to me, yet I was stupid and stubborn, I thought I knew better. Still, this stranger was of the helpful kind, and he made a huge trip to another city to purchase the best dagger I could use. Even though I didn't know any better, he helped me out with the way I wanted to play the game.
  
  
• Star Wars Galaxies - If you've played the game pre-CU, you probably remember the little 'queues' of people waiting for shuttles. It took around 20 minutes, if I remember correctly, for a shuttle to arrive so you could travel to another city or planet. If you missed it, you either had to leave the port and come back later, or stick around and wait. And there was always someone there to talk to. Either whole groups or a single person you could pass the time with, learn more about the game or meet new friends. I can't recall if there were other things to do, but life in MMOs is often quite a rush. It's important to sometimes stop, slow down, have a chat with your fellow gamer, there are friends to be made all around you! And who knows, you could give them a helping hand!
  
  
• World of Warcraft - Curious about the most popular MMO out there, I jumped on the bandwagon (is that the proper usage of the term?), and spent hours upon hours in the Night Elf starting area. A random stranger I met, who was making an alt character then, took me under his wing. He taught me what the hell that Need/Greed window was and what I should pick in what situation and introduced me to PVP. He levelled up with me, teaching me things about the game as we went along. If it weren't for him, I'd probably have gotten bored of the game and left. When I was a little more experienced a year later, I bumped into him again only to find that he was actually an elitist prick of the worst kind. Regardless, his knowledge at the time was valid and informative, and his help genuinely appreciated.
  
  Still in the World of Warcraft, I knew a very, very skilled raider that I happened to be in a guild with. I didn't know him very well, he was very quiet and never really talked to anyone, but everyone liked him, because he was such a good rogue. In WoW there are these little holiday events, like Halloween or Christmas, where you can get special vanity, mounts, pets or gear. The mounts are (or at least used to) be quite hard to get, as they were a drop from a boss you could only summon once a day, and the drop chance was quite low!
  Now, I happened to be in a party with this awesome rogue where we killed this boss and the unique mount actually dropped! I managed to win the roll of it, and even though I was really happy to finally have it, I knew that the Rogue wanted it and had been hunting it fanatically for quite a while so.. I simply gave it to him. Sometimes it's a good thing to look around and see if that shiny piece of gear or whatever that just dropped would be better used by someone else..
  

These are but a few examples, but I think you probably get the idea of where I'm at. So there, I could go on, but this opening post is already quite long for an introduction..

Love and Peace,
TK

Hey TK!


TL;DR

Haha, had you for a second there, eh?


Interesting read, I must say. I'm not going to elaborate my answer much tonight though.


The way respect is perceived varies greatly. For me, I can say this much, respect does not mean we're all carebears who love each other (but of course, WE do ) unconditionally.

It also doesn't mean I will stop for every player in need and give him a fortune of time and money.
But if I have to turn someone down, I will do so respectfully and I will never judge a player for his knowledge of the game, or his way of playing it, or whatnot.

Well, I'm keeping it short so that's it.


Welcome to the boards, TK.
I'm afraid you have not picked the most prolific time this project has seen. Real life and lack of things to do until the game is actually nearing release has been keeping this a rather quiet space for a while.

We're currently working on our new forums/website (which we will hopefully soon be moving to), which might give us a little boost.

But essentially this is a project that can fully bloom only when the game is here. However, I encourage you to stick around until then, we have great folks, many extraordinarily motivated, and superb ideas. And a terrific sense of humor

You won't see much of this right now, but this community can be like a drug you can't stop using, when everyone is here and active.
And who doesn't like drugs? (Yes, that's the conclusion)

Thank you for the warm welcome, Mr. Sign.

Grome wrote:

I'm afraid you have not picked the most prolific time this project has seen. Real life and lack of things to do until the game is actually nearing release has been keeping this a rather quiet space for a while.

I expected this might have been that case, and that's fine. I'm not much of a forum troll anyhow, despite my efforts . Sill, we'll gank and corpse-camp each other ingame soon enough, right? <3

At any rate, you're at least one person from the community that I don't hate! Carebear hug?




Love,
TK

Hey TK!! And welcome to the boards!!

As the OP of the thread in question which started all this craziness lol, I hope I can ally some of your concerns.

Respect is a relative term, and of course can be interpreted a hundred different ways, for me though it kind of boils down to this. I play with my mates in an MMO, or I play with people who through my journey in an MMO become my mates, I may rib them, (Quite a bit in fact haha) but I do so with no ill intent I guess, I know them, I know their buttons to press to get a reaction if I want one, but I also know where that gap is between good natured tacking the **** out of a mate, and then being insulting and rude, and risking causing offence or upset I suppose. I do it as do they to have a bit of fun, often at their expense or my own, but there is never an intent to upset anyone. We do it to each other merely to poke fun, and have a laugh at and with each other. And that’s it.

It could be deemed as carebear perhaps? I honestly don’t think so, if you think for one second I or others on here would not quite happily tell someone to F*** off on occasion if they the occasion called for it, then I think we are all kidding ourselves lol.

I think in its basic terms for me, I try to treat people online as I would offline. If someone I had never met came up to me in the street and started talking crap at me, would I stand for it? Hell no, would I ever walk up to someone and do that either? Not a chance, I am just not like that, nor are most people. I suppose in some way, you could just look at it as basic good manners?

I know there will be an occasion online at some time or other in TOR where I will upset someone. It is inevitable, it happens. Often without even meaning too, you simply don’t think about what you have said, or someone takes what you have said, and takes it completely the wrong way (That’s happened a few times, lol) But the difference between being a jerk, and being a decent human being is being man enough to admit you were wrong (Even if in all honesty you don’t think you were some times) Say you are wrong, apologise and try to be more careful around that person in future. Honestly the amount of people I have met online over the years who simply cannot say that word ‘Sorry’ baffles me. You know full well most of them would if they upset someone in real life, so why be any different just because your online? It makes no sense to me I guess.

Does that make sense?

P.S. Love the Avatar pic!! Awesome series!!

Tyrion!!!!!

Hi TK and welcome.

Respect in gaming for me is, hmmm, respect: help others if needed, say thanks, be polite, etc.

Timekiller wrote:

At any rate, you're at least one person from the community that I don't hate! Carebear hug?

Hoo, that make me so happy! (imagine an italian accent)

I always thought this should be our official advertising video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXqhKnv9y3c


And this one is a bonus, just because I'm nice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

"I try to treat people online as I would offline", Ty-Odi said it best for me.
Thanks for the post TK, good read, and welcome to R.I.G.

Someone give the guy a cookie!

Hi TK,

In a nutshell, Ty-Odi's "try to treat people online as I would offline" sums up how I think gaming respect should be. If you wouldn't be willing to do it in real life what you're doing in game, then you're a fraud. Anonymity has it's uses, but mmo's seem to abuse this trait way too often.

I don't know how much of this board you've read, but I'm a member of the "Crazies" and as our name implies, we love to have a good time in game. We joke around, we do stupid things, we kick butt, but we know where the line is drawn and try hard not to cross it. We take as well as we get as long as it's meant in good fun and if things get too far, we do rein in when appropriate. From other posts I've read on this forum I see we're not alone in this attitude and that gladden's me. So welcome aboard.

Wetworks wrote:

Someone give the guy a cookie!

I would, but someone stole all our cookies! We think it's Ernie...

Ty-Odi wrote:

Does that make sense?

No.

Just kidding - and - I simply could not resist the urge to increase the ammount of double-posting in this thread

Dear, Mr. Spam,

Ty-Odi wrote:

Respect is a relative term, and of course can be interpreted a hundred different ways, for me though it kind of boils down to this. I play with my mates in an MMO, or I play with people who through my journey in an MMO become my mates, I may rib them, (Quite a bit in fact haha) but I do so with no ill intent I guess, I know them, I know their buttons to press to get a reaction if I want one, but I also know where that gap is between good natured tacking the **** out of a mate, and then being insulting and rude, and risking causing offence or upset I suppose. I do it as do they to have a bit of fun, often at their expense or my own, but there is never an intent to upset anyone. We do it to each other merely to poke fun, and have a laugh at and with each other. And that’s it.

I understand there are boundaries, limits to banter and such. My only fear is that these boundaries may be too extreme, time will tell if the fear is unfounded. I'm here to get to know the community and see for myself. HAI EVERYONE!

Ty-Odi wrote:

It could be deemed as carebear perhaps?

Depends on what your definition of 'carebear' is! We all know the cartoon the term is based on, but over the years I've heard it used in a multiple of different meanings. Originally I got to know the term from EVE Online: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf-FUmR4DMA

So, do you whine and cry and make forum posts saying how it is unfair when this mean, mean Bounty Hunter has been corpse camping you for an hour?

Ty-Odi wrote:

But the difference between being a jerk, and being a decent human being is being man enough to admit you were wrong (Even if in all honesty you don’t think you were some times) Say you are wrong, apologise and try to be more careful around that person in future. Honestly the amount of people I have met online over the years who simply cannot say that word ‘Sorry’ baffles me. You know full well most of them would if they upset someone in real life, so why be any different just because your online? It makes no sense to me I guess.

I couldn't agree with you more if you tried! Here here! <3

Grome wrote:

And this one is a bonus, just because I'm nice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Grome wrote:

I would, but someone stole all our cookies! We think it's Ernie...

... I just got Rickrolled by a sign?

And that's fine. I'm more of a donut person myself. DONUTS WITH MAPLE SYRUP, MMMM.... I miss those things...

Quince wrote:

In a nutshell, Ty-Odi's "try to treat people online as I would offline" sums up how I think gaming respect should be. If you wouldn't be willing to do it in real life what you're doing in game, then you're a fraud. Anonymity has it's uses, but mmo's seem to abuse this trait way too often.

I know you're not talking about the specific example I'm about to bring up, but I disagree with you. What if a said person is a shy quiet person with a good heart, that simply doesn't have enough courage to be nice IRL? Some of us are quiet nerds IRL and loud nerds on the web. The bad and the good kind of loud.

That's it. I only wanted to disagree with the cool guy on a hoverboard. What anime is that from, by the way?

Thanks for the kind welcome everyone! Lessthanthree!

Sup TK.

I'm a roleplayer. You hatin'? ;3

Welcome to RIG, regardless. As far as I've experienced it we're not rotten douchebags, and most of us are pretty nice, as well. I have to say I like your attitude, and humor. Hopefully you will be convinced that this is more than an ideal Much love, hopefully we'll play together sometime! <3

Horeon wrote:

I'm a roleplayer. You hatin'? ;3

I want to. I really, really do. But that might be just a little hypocritical of me. See, I have this friend here, who happens to have this Table Top RP Game of Thrones book and...

Timekiller wrote:

I want to. I really, really do. But that might be just a little hypocritical of me. See, I have this friend here, who happens to have this Table Top RP Game of Thrones book and...

Hah, way cool, brother. I just want to say I understand where you're coming from, with your negative predisposition against roleplayers, and arrogant players in general... you're coming from every MMO community ever. And we're trying to change that, by bringing the (supposedly) most (in theory) mature players together. Our main difference is that we're not designated roleplayers, PvPers, raiders - we're players, who all happen to focus on certain things in play, and instead of judging each other, we play with, or just go around each other. Like your mage+dagger example.

I feel like I'm saying things that have already been said, but I'm just excited we got ourselves such an interesting new member. */offers cookies* Cookie? ;d

Timekiller wrote:

I know you're not talking about the specific example I'm about to bring up, but I disagree with you. What if a said person is a shy quiet person with a good heart, that simply doesn't have enough courage to be nice IRL? Some of us are quiet nerds IRL and loud nerds on the web. The bad and the good kind of loud.

That's it. I only wanted to disagree with the cool guy on a hoverboard. What anime is that from, by the way?

Your example rarely produces the griefing, disrespectful gamers who spam crude, offensive jokes in general chat or gank players 20 levels below their level just because they can, camping the defenseless unless they're victims in RL. I find that most of these a-holes are very immature, reveling in their anonymity. Those are the folks I am calling a fraud because you know as well as I do, if you met one of these "players" in RL, the stuff they say in a game they would never say to your face. As to RL victims, why do I who've never done anything to them have to suffer their vitriol. Aren't they victimizing the innocent because they've been victimized?

As to the hoverboarder, his name is Renton and the anime is called Eureka 7. It's a fun anime with an interesting look at the world. I change my avatar every once in awhile to characters from animes I enjoy.

Quince wrote:

Your example rarely produces the griefing, disrespectful gamers who spam crude, offensive jokes in general chat or gank players 20 levels below their level just because they can, camping the defenseless unless they're victims in RL. I find that most of these a-holes are very immature, reveling in their anonymity. Those are the folks I am calling a fraud because you know as well as I do, if you met one of these "players" in RL, the stuff they say in a game they would never say to your face. As to RL victims, why do I who've never done anything to them have to suffer their vitriol. Aren't they victimizing the innocent because they've been victimized?

I do know what you mean. I hope that doesn't make me a hypocrite for giving you a hug *HUG*.. No way in hell I'd do that IRL, duuude!

Offensive jokes in general chat, ugh, agreed. Anyone remember.... 'Anal [Dirge]'? *shudder* Now, ganking underlevelled players, I'd say that's fine, really. I've had the funniest of world PVP encounters when I've repeatedly ganked this poor lowbie, corpsecamped him, only to have him bring his friends to gang up and do the same to me. And then I brought my friends along and we had an hour long massacre that was utterly hilarious!

I wish I wasn't such a carebear though, I rarely ever gank anyone

Quince wrote:

As to the hoverboarder, his name is Renton and the anime is called Eureka 7. It's a fun anime with an interesting look at the world. I change my avatar every once in awhile to characters from animes I enjoy.

You watch anime and you're 52 years old? Don't take this the wrong way, I'm really not trying to be insulting. I used to watch Anime a lot, but I think I grew out of it. And it's a real shame, I still love the drawing style and animation, and I freaking WANT to like and anime, however..

I seriously need some recommendations here. Of some really good anime...

Every single anime I try to watch it's the same thing.. Either the plot is so convoluted I have no idea what the hell is going on, or it's simply stupid to the point of making me bash my brains out against a wall. Each episode is 20 minutes in length, where the first minute is a recap of what happened in the previous episode, 1:30 mins for the opening, then 1:30 mins for the ending and another minute that let you know what happens in the next one.

And don't even get me started on the 'harem' type of anime, the ones with 1 boy surrounded by many girls? MY GOD I HATE THOSE SO DAMN MUCH I WANT TO GOUGE MY EYEBALLS OUT, DIP THEM IN SPAGHETTI SAUCE AND TOSS THEM OUT THE WINDOW...

Ahem.. Sorry for that outburst. I once had a roommate that just loved to show me those all the freaking time...

Peace.

Timekiller wrote:

I do know what you mean. I hope that doesn't make me a hypocrite for giving you a hug *HUG*.. No way in hell I'd do that IRL, duuude!

Quote :

You watch anime and you're 52 years old? Don't take this the wrong way, I'm really not trying to be insulting. I used to watch Anime a lot, but I think I grew out of it. And it's a real shame, I still love the drawing style and animation, and I freaking WANT to like and anime, however..

I seriously need some recommendations here. Of some really good anime...

I watch anime too! Although, recent ones haven't been that good (lots of fan services, dumb plot, etc)

What have you watched as anime and what do you like? I would personally suggest Ghost in the Shell, if you haven't seen it.

I think that I don't know what I'd like.

I watched the Ghost in the Shell movie and it was good. <3 The GITS series I liked, but stopped watching at some point. Probably my favourite anime of all time would be Full Metal Panic, I've watched that one multiple times!

Others I liked, that I remember, would be:

Outlaw Star
Ruroni Kenshin (a long long time ago)
Blood
Samurai Champloo
Cowboy Bebop

I used to like vampire-themes a lot so I saw a ton of those, Blood the series was promising for a while, but then it got.. meh.

That is all I can remember.

Lots of anime get meh, mostly because studio are forced to "please" the fans in Japan (Or they just don't know how to end them). They also use the "young boy hero who save everybody from war" way too much often...

Other good ones (not vampire related) would be 12 Kingdom and Fate/Stay Night (base on the video game of the same name).

And if you like Mecha: Escaflowne (+ Gundam Unicorn, new ova series, it's not finished yet, but it's totally retro!)

I think it's safe to say barely anyone behaves on the interwebs or in MMOs the same way he/she does in real life. There's just some that take it too far, to finally live that lifelong fantasy of being the ultimate ass everybody hates. Or something like that.

Timekiller wrote:

And don't even get me started on the 'harem' type of anime, the ones with 1 boy surrounded by many girls? MY GOD I HATE THOSE SO DAMN MUCH I WANT TO GOUGE MY EYEBALLS OUT, DIP THEM IN SPAGHETTI SAUCE AND TOSS THEM OUT THE WINDOW...

Haha, those are the worst. They have no meaningful plot at all and the characters are painfully unrealistic.

I'm actually not that fond of mecha, unless it's Full Metal Panic! They don't actually do the robot fights that often during the series, which is probably one reason why I like it. If an anime of that sub-genre focuses on a variety of things, and doesn't force itself to put out a mecha fight for every single episode, I'm interested!

12 Kingdoms, I can't believe I forgot to put that one on my list! Also happens to be one of my all time favourites. In fact, I liked the story so much, that I actually ordered the book it was based on from Amazon.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Hmm, my view on ganking might be tinted since I tend to play on PVE servers. So, besides battlegrounds, PVP tends to occur when one faction tricks another faction into flagging so that they can gank them. I tend to limit my PVP to FPS games and leave MMOs for other choices. (Yes, I know, this is my personal preference.) Too many times I have been tricked into flagging and by the time my friends show up, the guy who ganked me is now unflagged and untouchable, unless I can trick him into attacking again. I understand the appeal of playing on a PVP server, there's always the potential for retribution.

As to my age and anime appeal, I've always loved the art form. When I was a kid it was Astro Boy and Gigantor. Later on it was Speed Racer and Marine Boy. There's something about Japanese animation that I just find so appealing. Now I focus on shows with good plots and interesting characters. But like any other show, some are good, some are bad, some are interesting, some are juvenile. I try and find sources that review different series and see if I agree with their assessments. If I do I see if there's anything they recommend and go from there.

Since you like Full Metal Panic, you'd probably like Eureka 7. It's also has some mecha, but not that much. (We're not talking Gundam here.) Plus, it deals with youth and discovery, cast interactions, and big impact/little impact. The shows you mentioned are all easy to like. To them I might add Witch hunter Robin, Corpse Princess, Darker than Black, or Claymore. I've watched dozens of series, some multiple times. Code Geass, Last Exile, too many to really name. And then there are the movies: Jin Roh and Grave of the Fire Flies come to mind. Both disturbing in their own right.

I feel you're never too old to enjoy an entertainment medium. Whether I read a book, watch a movie, or participate in an event, it's all forms of entertainment that I chose for me.

(Step down from soap box and offer the stand to someone else... )

Apologies for side-tracking from the current discussion in this thread, but I finally got around to articulating my reply to the OP.

Respect in Gaming to me has two critical elements.

• All parties are able to disagree without getting offended.
  
• All parties allow each other to play each game in their own way.